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[Music]

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the smoke radio for the masses of July 8

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1947 the Army Air Forces has announced

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that a flying disc has been found and is

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now in the possession of the army

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rigs change the game game changer I

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occasionally think how quickly hard

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difference is worldwide would vanish if

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we were facing an alien threat from

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outside this work

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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this is Fade to Black with your host

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Jimmy Church on the game changer Radio

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Network

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[Music]

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all right welcome Fade to Black I'm your

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host Jimmy church today is Tuesday

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January 17

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2023 and tonight on Fade to Black

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x x I'm gonna say x x Navy pilot

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Lieutenant Ryan Graves is with us and he

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is a former Lieutenant of the United

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States Navy F-18 f a 18 F pilot he

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served for a decade including two

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deployments in operation enduring

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freedom and operation inherent resolve

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he was one of the first active duty

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Pilots to come forward publicly about

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regular sightings of unidentified aerial

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phenomena today UFOs uh known today as

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uaps and has been featured in 60 minutes

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the History Channel The New York Times

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and now Fade to Black and I would like

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to welcome for the first time to fade to

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black lieutenant Ryan Graves Ryan good

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evening young man how you doing I'm

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doing well Jimmy thanks for having me

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here it's a it man it was it was long

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road but but we got it we made it happen

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and welcome to the show and and here's

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here's the deal you get the First Time

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guest disclaimer a tradition that's been

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going on around here for 10 years so

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let's get that out of the way which is

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Ryan it's just you and I sitting on my

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couch having a conversation as friends

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and where the conversation starts and

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starts where it ends it ends but we're

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gonna end as friends there you go all

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right painless right very good yeah the

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next time yeah yeah the next time you're

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on you you you won't get it and uh so

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that's out of the way I have forgotten

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that a couple of times over the years

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and I watch you know the chat room and

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the email light up dude and so I've had

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to go back after the break and and uh

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and and get that in but welcome to the

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show and

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um we've got a lot to discuss uh tonight

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and

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um I I kind of want to revisit the past

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a little bit for those that have not

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heard from you directly and of course uh

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this is the first time that you've been

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on the show it's the first time that you

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and I have had the opportunity to talk

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so I want to revisit 2014 13 if we can

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sure and uh uh we'll we'll do that

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because that's you know that's going to

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be the foundation for the conversation

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tonight but I actually want to move

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before that if we can

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um you've got an engineering degree

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right you've got an engineering

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background oh I I wanted to do you still

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fly

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um no not really right at the moment uh

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I just don't really live in a place

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where there's anything

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um that fun to rent frankly right

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fair enough fair enough so you've got an

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engineering degree engineering

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background that's you know that's where

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your mind was uh eventually you went in

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uh to the Navy and became a pilot but

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before that let's talk about when you

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were a kid did you know what the UFO was

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did you have any interest in aliens or

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life in the universe or anything like

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um

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well I think I would split those out a

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little bit

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um I I don't think I had as a child

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really like uh a interest or education

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and what I would call like UFO culture

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maybe right

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um so that that was uh not something I

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was overly familiar with but I was

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generally a very curious child about the

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universe you know in general to include

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whether there was life kind of out there

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you know aliens and you know just

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generally science fiction as well as I

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started to grow up more and more but um

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yeah so I was generally very curious

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the the transition of uh you know an

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engineering degree they seem a little

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awkward to some to go from that uh to a

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pilot so that's another question did you

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did you always have you know all all all

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young men want to grow up to be a Navy

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pilot let's be very clear right but but

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did you see that coming and and why that

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decision yeah you know I I served with a

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lot of men and women that did grow up

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wanting to have a career as a fighter

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pilot or any type of aviator

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um I frankly just wasn't one of those

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people uh I didn't have exposure to

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Aviation as a child

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um you know even really live near an

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airport knowing my family flew uh no one

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in my family other than my father for a

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very brief period of time way back when

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uh who was in the National Guard

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um

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you know in my immediate vicinity really

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served in any of the recent conflicts so

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um for me it was It was kind of outside

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the scope

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um but what kind of transitioned me into

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it was

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um my my first internship where I did an

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engineering internship and I realized

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just how dull the specific field I was

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going in was going to be and I didn't

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think that was really where I wanted to

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go because I knew I like I said I was

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very curious and passionate about

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technology and and the science in

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general but I didn't necessarily know

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how I wanted to apply that I didn't know

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if that was doing research somewhere or

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perhaps using Advanced tools uh in some

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fashion or perhaps exploring in some way

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but the challenge I chose after I was

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exposed with that that the whole life

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perhaps would have been was to do the

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opposite which what I selected was to

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fly fighter aircraft and at least

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challenge myself in that way and there

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are all types you know you have perhaps

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history majors and Engineers that go

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into flying

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some folks you know going with Masters

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what you see a lot of times are pilots

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with engineering degrees a lot of times

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like to Target test pilot school and

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eventually NASA as well yeah you know my

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best friend uh Steve Murillo I don't

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know if you know Steve but a great guy

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and same thing he went uh to the Naval

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Academy uh didn't see that as his future

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uh graduated from the Naval Academy

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Marine Corps fighter pilot you know just

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like that and uh one of the most

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grounded cool people that I've ever met

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and now he's a real estate guy right but

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this this small period in his life and

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uh the one question that I have to ask

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this is guy to guy

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flying in F-18 coolest gig in the world

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coolest Rush pretty cool yeah I mean any

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any fighter jet like that I mean that's

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that is really why I not necessarily

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cool but just

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um

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let me describe it this way there's

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really two aspects to it there's the

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flying part of it which is what 99.9 of

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people think it is it's sitting around

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and making the jet go where you want uh

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and it's quite the dance and it's and

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it's fun

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um and then there's the other side of it

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which is this massive weapon system that

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you're operating and the tactics and the

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the skill set and the knowledge and the

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training that requires to do that is

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another whole battle that really is

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something I didn't appreciate you know

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before because it was impossible to do

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so

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um no one really can and that's an

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entirely different type of a dance and

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people always like to ask me if I miss

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it right and I do miss the flying part I

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don't necessarily miss that that ladder

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part um it's um quite the challenge you

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can't play chess continuously no you

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can't you can't and psychologically you

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know that's that's just got to

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eventually take its toll for for sure

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um now the the other part to this though

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um what when you have that kind of skill

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set

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you are rational

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right you have to think rationally all

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the time and and with clear head and

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everything hopefully makes sense to you

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you you have to fly the plane you can't

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make any errors uh you know an error

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could be a really bad thing so you if

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any distraction is there uh you know

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there's consequences and so you are

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mentally are you know so focused and you

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have to be so rational all the time when

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you get pulled out of that box like what

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happened in 2014 does that throw off

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your sense of reality when you think

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that you've got it together and you're

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grounded

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um not necessarily because the way that

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we

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kind of came to terms of what was

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happening at least I did was that it

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wasn't an instantaneous change in our

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perspective we just were seeing things

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we couldn't necessarily explain but we

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had rationales for it and you know that

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over time you know

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um many of them went away

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um and you know we were left still

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asking questions

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um

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I'm not sure if that answers your

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question no it does it it does so it

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didn't throw you out of focus no and you

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know the way I would describe it is

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um we have to it's it's all about

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priorities right once we're in there our

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priorities are priorities they do not

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change uh right like our fuel is always

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going to be our priority until we land

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on things of that nature and so uh and

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our training as well so when we see

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objects out there

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um we occasionally we might have the

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opportunity to investigate in some

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manner but much of the time we're seeing

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these things over such a massive area

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that you know it's not practical to be

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going and uh necessarily investigating

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anyone at any given time and so you just

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put it into the safety bucket you might

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see it in that working area you're going

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to go into and you just say I'll use the

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other working area right and so now

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you're 50 miles away and it's not

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necessarily that it's an immediate

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safety threat that we have to go

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investigate and then rationalize with

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ourselves when we land it's just you

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know an annoyance that builds up over

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time and of course as it became aim you

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know over time over the period of time

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while this is happening it became the

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data started coming in right all right

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we flew by it and it you know we

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couldn't see it or we could see it and

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it looked like this and that's very

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strange or now they're you know they're

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over here and so it really wasn't that

276
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:30,839
like you know come to Jesus moment where

277
00:11:35,170 --> 00:11:32,880
we had to like rethink ourselves there

278
00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:35,180
it wasn't quite that sudden

279
00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:38,220
the uh and let's get to that let's get

280
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:40,140
to that first day

281
00:11:46,090 --> 00:11:41,760
um well actually before we get to the

282
00:11:48,889 --> 00:11:46,100
first day right you you have a

283
00:11:50,630 --> 00:11:48,899
gotten used to and acclimated you know

284
00:11:52,190 --> 00:11:50,640
to Flying this aircraft and the

285
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:52,200
procedures going through that it's the

286
00:11:57,710 --> 00:11:55,920
military operation everything is is so

287
00:11:59,449 --> 00:11:57,720
mechanized and well oiled you've got

288
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,459
your team around you and the ground crew

289
00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:01,680
and mechanics and right it's everything

290
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:04,200
is routine and hopefully everything is

291
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:06,000
always running smoothly

292
00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:09,600
that's the goal that's the goal and then

293
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:10,920
one day

294
00:12:17,389 --> 00:12:12,959
something is different

295
00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:17,399
right and and when you first had your

296
00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:21,000
your first sensor you know go off what

297
00:12:26,329 --> 00:12:22,920
went through your mind

298
00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:26,339
so at first when we first had these on

299
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:32,150
there was some expectation that perhaps

300
00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:34,620
we would see more because our our radar

301
00:12:41,449 --> 00:12:39,480
is um uh better uh so we had a APG 73

302
00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:41,459
radar that we were not seeing these

303
00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:43,740
objects with and we did eventually

304
00:12:47,810 --> 00:12:45,720
upgrade our radar and we were able to

305
00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:47,820
see the objects out there we went to

306
00:12:50,509 --> 00:12:49,320
with expectation that perhaps we could

307
00:12:53,150 --> 00:12:50,519
see more stuff but that's kind of like

308
00:12:55,129 --> 00:12:53,160
at range and way off but now suddenly

309
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,139
see things that were in the area almost

310
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:57,120
as if the Fidelity of the sensor was

311
00:13:00,769 --> 00:12:58,560
better and now we're picking things up

312
00:13:02,210 --> 00:13:00,779
it was disconcerting because we didn't

313
00:13:03,769 --> 00:13:02,220
even know if they were necessarily even

314
00:13:06,889 --> 00:13:03,779
real objects or if they're physical

315
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,899
objects we had to

316
00:13:10,690 --> 00:13:08,399
um well at the time we were considering

317
00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:10,700
that perhaps they were false tracks

318
00:13:16,910 --> 00:13:14,220
because the radar is now upgraded and

319
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:16,920
it's it's just good right it's much

320
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:19,860
better and that could be just the case

321
00:13:23,329 --> 00:13:21,839
that this was there all the time with

322
00:13:25,550 --> 00:13:23,339
the old radar now you've got the new

323
00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:25,560
stuff and it's picking it up that's one

324
00:13:29,810 --> 00:13:28,440
potential option yep yep and I mean that

325
00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:29,820
is that's not the conclusion we

326
00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:31,500
necessarily had moment but that's where

327
00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:34,980
obviously we've we've got to today

328
00:13:40,430 --> 00:13:38,220
and uh okay so to that moment

329
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:40,440
what happened

330
00:13:47,569 --> 00:13:44,160
um and and again in this area

331
00:13:48,889 --> 00:13:47,579
um we have uh okay let me let me reframe

332
00:13:52,090 --> 00:13:48,899
this a little bit because I think

333
00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:52,100
there's some confusion uh over the years

334
00:13:59,210 --> 00:13:55,560
uh since you have come forward where you

335
00:14:01,610 --> 00:13:59,220
guys are training out on the East Coast

336
00:14:04,190 --> 00:14:01,620
um how far off of the coast number one

337
00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:04,200
and number two how much of this is

338
00:14:10,430 --> 00:14:07,620
restricted airspace or can just like any

339
00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:10,440
Private Pilot wing it through on an

340
00:14:16,009 --> 00:14:13,320
ultralight right is is this is this an

341
00:14:19,610 --> 00:14:16,019
area that is only set for military

342
00:14:21,230 --> 00:14:19,620
exercises so the answer to your first

343
00:14:23,389 --> 00:14:21,240
question is they start 10 miles off the

344
00:14:26,509 --> 00:14:23,399
coast roughly and they go off to about

345
00:14:29,810 --> 00:14:26,519
probably 250 miles but they're broken up

346
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:29,820
into like maybe you know 50 by 50 blocks

347
00:14:34,730 --> 00:14:32,639
something like that in nature okay 50

348
00:14:37,009 --> 00:14:34,740
miles by 50 miles or 80 miles by 80

349
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:37,019
miles and we could claim multiple of

350
00:14:41,389 --> 00:14:38,639
those blocks

351
00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:41,399
or a single one of them

352
00:14:45,610 --> 00:14:43,380
um I'm sorry what was the second part of

353
00:14:49,370 --> 00:14:45,620
the question

354
00:14:50,810 --> 00:14:49,380
how how much of this is restricted so

355
00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:50,820
yeah so the the

356
00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:52,380
um unfortunately the answer is that

357
00:14:56,990 --> 00:14:54,360
there there are two answers to that and

358
00:14:59,569 --> 00:14:57,000
they're diametrically opposed

359
00:15:01,730 --> 00:14:59,579
um one of them is that if you're just

360
00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:01,740
normal traffic that takes off within the

361
00:15:08,210 --> 00:15:06,120
United States and your U.S traffic

362
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:08,220
um technically the areas are warning

363
00:15:13,490 --> 00:15:10,800
areas they're not restricted areas

364
00:15:15,230 --> 00:15:13,500
and that means that yes a Cessna or

365
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:15,240
something else can technically fly into

366
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:18,300
the area however it will immediately get

367
00:15:23,449 --> 00:15:21,120
called out if there's traffic in there

368
00:15:24,769 --> 00:15:23,459
um the controls will alert the f-18s and

369
00:15:26,569 --> 00:15:24,779
they'll call the traffic out to let them

370
00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:26,579
know there's active traffic working in

371
00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:29,220
there and then we'll see around them

372
00:15:33,230 --> 00:15:31,019
um that doesn't happen very much because

373
00:15:35,569 --> 00:15:33,240
everyone knows that that area is off

374
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:35,579
limits more or less we might have like

375
00:15:40,329 --> 00:15:37,920
some fishing boats down like uh fishing

376
00:15:43,009 --> 00:15:40,339
planes like spotting planes down at like

377
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:43,019
3000 or 2 000 feet or something like

378
00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:44,100
that

379
00:15:50,449 --> 00:15:48,420
20 mile but you know the area goes out

380
00:15:53,930 --> 00:15:50,459
250 miles

381
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,940
and that's uh that's a that's a pretty

382
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:56,399
that's a pretty good distance and the

383
00:16:01,009 --> 00:15:58,560
reason why I I just suggest that we

384
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:01,019
won't spend uh any time on this now but

385
00:16:07,129 --> 00:16:03,899
if it's any kind of battery powered or

386
00:16:10,610 --> 00:16:07,139
you know any kind of drone-ish kind of

387
00:16:11,870 --> 00:16:10,620
thing it's not going out that far you

388
00:16:13,129 --> 00:16:11,880
know if it was something that was

389
00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:13,139
spending any time out there it would

390
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,000
have to launch from out there so right

391
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,519
exactly exactly so let me answer the

392
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:19,199
second part of the question the

393
00:16:22,910 --> 00:16:21,360
diametrically opposed part so in that

394
00:16:25,490 --> 00:16:22,920
sense those areas are not restricted

395
00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:25,500
right now if you are international

396
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:29,060
traffic or non-us traffic and you are

397
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,399
Crossing into these areas there's

398
00:16:37,129 --> 00:16:34,560
another line that kind of intersects

399
00:16:39,769 --> 00:16:37,139
here uh that runs north to south and

400
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,779
that's our air uh defense identification

401
00:16:45,710 --> 00:16:42,000
zone or eight is if you're International

402
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:45,720
traffic you enter that eight is uh that

403
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:47,519
is essentially restricted airs phase you

404
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:48,839
cannot

405
00:16:53,389 --> 00:16:50,639
um essentially enter into the U.S

406
00:16:55,069 --> 00:16:53,399
through that so in that sense if your

407
00:16:57,290 --> 00:16:55,079
unknown traffic more or less than it is

408
00:16:59,870 --> 00:16:57,300
restricted airspace as you uh cross that

409
00:17:01,610 --> 00:16:59,880
threshold I have flown in a private

410
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:01,620
aircraft with a friend of mine's a pilot

411
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,520
and we flew into restricted airspace and

412
00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:07,679
uh we had to land at an airport that was

413
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,439
on the other side of the restricted air

414
00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:12,480
airspace and you probably know the area

415
00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:14,760
of Point Magoo right off of the West

416
00:17:22,370 --> 00:17:18,120
Coast and uh the amount of chatter

417
00:17:24,049 --> 00:17:22,380
between us and that base right uh now we

418
00:17:26,809 --> 00:17:24,059
we got our clearance and everything but

419
00:17:28,730 --> 00:17:26,819
they knew that we were there oh yeah and

420
00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:28,740
uh there was a there was like it was it

421
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:30,780
was fun it was interesting but yeah it

422
00:17:35,870 --> 00:17:33,120
was it's restricted airspace over over a

423
00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:35,880
navy base yeah so it's an actual term

424
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:37,740
restricted is like a technical term for

425
00:17:42,049 --> 00:17:40,080
a type of air space under the U.S

426
00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:42,059
umbrella and you do not penetrate

427
00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:44,100
restricted airspace I mean even at a jet

428
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,780
we have to schedule it call ahead and

429
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:47,280
it's usually for good reasons it's right

430
00:17:52,610 --> 00:17:49,620
over our release for a bombing drop or

431
00:17:56,810 --> 00:17:52,620
something like that sure sure sure

432
00:18:00,350 --> 00:17:56,820
um okay so now uh radar picks it up

433
00:18:02,750 --> 00:18:00,360
first right and what's the what's the

434
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,760
processes after

435
00:18:07,450 --> 00:18:04,559
um is everything automated right if

436
00:18:10,430 --> 00:18:07,460
radar picks it up does the whole plane

437
00:18:13,130 --> 00:18:10,440
you know all of its sensors focus

438
00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:13,140
cameras whatever uh focus on that uh

439
00:18:19,549 --> 00:18:16,140
particular Target exactly yep

440
00:18:21,529 --> 00:18:19,559
and so what we were seeing was that

441
00:18:22,909 --> 00:18:21,539
um it was on a radar and

442
00:18:25,130 --> 00:18:22,919
if we would you know just kind of lock

443
00:18:27,289 --> 00:18:25,140
them up in the radar so we're kind of

444
00:18:29,870 --> 00:18:27,299
selecting it right and then as people

445
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:29,880
happen to get close enough to them uh

446
00:18:34,970 --> 00:18:32,160
the other sensors which are slew to that

447
00:18:36,529 --> 00:18:34,980
radar are then picking up the object uh

448
00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:36,539
and some of these sensors were kind of

449
00:18:40,610 --> 00:18:39,240
visual sensors or IR sensors and so

450
00:18:42,770 --> 00:18:40,620
that's when we were seeing our energy

451
00:18:45,289 --> 00:18:42,780
come from that location like you know

452
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,299
the precise location uh not the general

453
00:18:49,130 --> 00:18:47,520
location but the precise location and so

454
00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:49,140
we're seeing something there where the

455
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:50,280
radar says there should be something

456
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:51,360
there

457
00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:53,520
okay now this is a physical object most

458
00:18:58,250 --> 00:18:55,980
likely but now what was that you guys

459
00:19:00,650 --> 00:18:58,260
are talking to each other right what are

460
00:19:01,850 --> 00:19:00,660
you saying at this point we're just kind

461
00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:01,860
of like what the [\h__\h] are these things

462
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:03,900
you know like it's just very crude like

463
00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:06,240
you know in court you know and the jokes

464
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:08,220
eventually start coming up about you

465
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,520
know UFOs and blah blah blah but at this

466
00:19:15,710 --> 00:19:13,440
point it's more of just

467
00:19:16,850 --> 00:19:15,720
um kind of confusion really still of

468
00:19:18,770 --> 00:19:16,860
what we're seeing we're just we're

469
00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:18,780
realizing this is now like a safety

470
00:19:22,669 --> 00:19:20,220
threat we have to like truly respect

471
00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:22,679
these things like we can't just like

472
00:19:28,730 --> 00:19:26,940
pretend their radar uh false tracks or

473
00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:28,740
something like that we had to make the

474
00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:30,360
assumptions that they're solid so that's

475
00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:31,740
kind of like the mental state we're at

476
00:19:36,730 --> 00:19:33,960
once we pick them up on the camera the

477
00:19:40,370 --> 00:19:36,740
IR camera who's closest

478
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:40,380
oh oh actually let's back up how many uh

479
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:43,679
uh uh FAA teams are out there at this

480
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,360
point so right now I'm talking about

481
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:47,760
like a general amount of people seeing

482
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:50,400
this over a period of several months all

483
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:51,660
right so like people are seeing these

484
00:19:55,850 --> 00:19:53,280
all the time on their Radars and they're

485
00:19:59,810 --> 00:19:55,860
just either they're far enough away that

486
00:20:01,310 --> 00:19:59,820
they you know don't bother anyone or you

487
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:01,320
know they got happen to see it on their

488
00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:03,299
flear and that's that but they're going

489
00:20:08,390 --> 00:20:05,640
about their mission and and you know

490
00:20:09,770 --> 00:20:08,400
that's the end of it but eventually uh I

491
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,780
mean people were trying to essentially

492
00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:11,520
like fly up and see them at this point

493
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:13,620
as well but no one had actually been

494
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:15,299
able to see one yet which was strange

495
00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:18,000
myself included we were trying to fly up

496
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,700
to them and uh we see it on the radar

497
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:23,039
and again our radar is linked to our our

498
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:24,960
camera which is showing us the IR energy

499
00:20:29,570 --> 00:20:27,600
and all that information is linked to

500
00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:29,580
the real world and is shown in my helmet

501
00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:31,500
and so

502
00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:32,280
um

503
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:34,260
there's like a little box in my eyesight

504
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:36,240
that's tracked on my eyes and my head it

505
00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:38,160
shows me where to look to see the object

506
00:20:43,010 --> 00:20:40,440
as I come to this merge about 500 feet

507
00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:43,020
away from it and I can see it on my

508
00:20:46,190 --> 00:20:44,760
camera and I can see it on the radar you

509
00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:46,200
can see in my helmet like where I should

510
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:47,940
be looking and I'm looking there and you

511
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:50,640
know we don't we don't see anything and

512
00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:52,320
that you know was strange and then of

513
00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:53,460
course it's still there on the radar

514
00:20:56,570 --> 00:20:55,799
still there on the flear

515
00:20:59,090 --> 00:20:56,580
um

516
00:21:00,770 --> 00:20:59,100
and that will you know that's that

517
00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:00,780
um and so what do we what do we make of

518
00:21:04,669 --> 00:21:02,940
that yeah right right was there motion

519
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:04,679
at that point when you when you're

520
00:21:10,370 --> 00:21:08,400
looking uh at this specific uh moment

521
00:21:13,310 --> 00:21:10,380
when you're looking through the Box on

522
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:13,320
your and you're looking out in the area

523
00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:16,320
where it should be was it was it moving

524
00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:18,780
or was it stationary what was your uh

525
00:21:22,669 --> 00:21:20,220
well it depends some of them were

526
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:22,679
stationary some of them were moving

527
00:21:26,450 --> 00:21:25,140
um typically when I was trying to if I

528
00:21:28,669 --> 00:21:26,460
tried to intercept one they were

529
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:28,679
stationary I never tried to intercept a

530
00:21:33,470 --> 00:21:30,240
movie one

531
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:33,480
um and did they move a little bit like

532
00:21:37,370 --> 00:21:35,340
at the actual merge it's tough It's

533
00:21:39,770 --> 00:21:37,380
really tough to say I can't look out

534
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,780
necessarily tell I might be able to get

535
00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:42,000
some closure speed but that could be my

536
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,220
aircraft moving like changing that

537
00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:46,080
velocity and not him so it's really

538
00:21:49,070 --> 00:21:47,580
something I have to look at the tapes to

539
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:49,080
really give you an answer for I don't

540
00:21:53,570 --> 00:21:50,640
have that memory

541
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:53,580
and uh not to revisit something that

542
00:21:59,169 --> 00:21:56,640
you've answered a million times but uh I

543
00:22:03,169 --> 00:21:59,179
I get the chance to ask this

544
00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:03,179
never have you ever seen one of these

545
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:05,159
with your own eyes no

546
00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:07,440
and why do you think that why I find

547
00:22:11,690 --> 00:22:10,260
that part so fascinating right like I

548
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:11,700
said we were trying to see them we see

549
00:22:16,490 --> 00:22:14,760
them on our radar and I I don't know

550
00:22:18,590 --> 00:22:16,500
what was special about the particular

551
00:22:20,450 --> 00:22:18,600
cases where the people saw them I have

552
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,460
some thoughts but I don't you know I

553
00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:22,320
have no data on that so like the first

554
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:23,940
time we actually saw them with our eyes

555
00:22:28,669 --> 00:22:26,159
someone in my Squadron

556
00:22:31,310 --> 00:22:28,679
um they the the object was right at that

557
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,320
entry point of the working area so

558
00:22:36,169 --> 00:22:33,840
that's at a very specific altitude at a

559
00:22:37,789 --> 00:22:36,179
GPS location and the so when you enter

560
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:37,799
the area at that you know 10 miles

561
00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:39,299
offshore you're doing it at a specific

562
00:22:43,549 --> 00:22:41,520
location and all the traffic is leaving

563
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,559
leaves about a thousand feet lower and

564
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:46,080
that's just how how it goes and they

565
00:22:49,730 --> 00:22:47,820
flew out there and we were respecting

566
00:22:50,810 --> 00:22:49,740
these objects at this time because we

567
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:50,820
were seeing on the flear and everything

568
00:22:56,330 --> 00:22:54,240
else and he flew out there and um one of

569
00:22:57,950 --> 00:22:56,340
these objects went down his wing

570
00:23:00,130 --> 00:22:57,960
essentially there's two aircraft flying

571
00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:00,140
like this this is the lead aircraft

572
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:04,020
object went right in between them

573
00:23:07,549 --> 00:23:06,240
um and I say it went in between them I

574
00:23:09,770 --> 00:23:07,559
don't think it was probably moving it

575
00:23:11,630 --> 00:23:09,780
was probably stationary at that point uh

576
00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:11,640
but the Jets of course were moving and

577
00:23:14,930 --> 00:23:12,900
so it appeared from their perspective

578
00:23:16,909 --> 00:23:14,940
one between them but

579
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:16,919
um how did they describe it what what

580
00:23:22,370 --> 00:23:18,799
did they see

581
00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:22,380
was this a pilot that has come forward

582
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:26,100
uh it's a pilot who has testified uh to

583
00:23:29,210 --> 00:23:27,720
the Senate armed service committee and

584
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:29,220
Senate Select Committee of intelligence

585
00:23:36,409 --> 00:23:32,400
just like I have uh back in the 2017

586
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,419
time frame uh and they also uh spoke to

587
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:39,120
New York Times as a non-public Source

588
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:40,740
right

589
00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:42,600
um when my New York Times article came

590
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:47,220
out in 2019 among others okay so but we

591
00:23:51,230 --> 00:23:48,720
don't know who this is that's fine right

592
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:51,240
but how did they describe what they saw

593
00:23:57,770 --> 00:23:55,260
uh they described a a black or dark gray

594
00:23:59,810 --> 00:23:57,780
Cube and it was what they described as

595
00:24:01,730 --> 00:23:59,820
inside a clear sphere is the word they

596
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,740
used I sometimes described it as

597
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,880
translucent because I really don't know

598
00:24:06,409 --> 00:24:04,559
what a clear sphere would look like if

599
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:06,419
it was perfectly clear all right so I

600
00:24:09,649 --> 00:24:07,980
have to assume it's somehow translucent

601
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:09,659
since he would be able to see through it

602
00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:11,039
but could still tell there's a sphere

603
00:24:14,990 --> 00:24:13,020
there and from what he was able to tell

604
00:24:16,610 --> 00:24:15,000
it looked like the the apexes or the

605
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,620
points of the cube were kind of like on

606
00:24:20,330 --> 00:24:18,240
the inside of that sphere right so it's

607
00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:20,340
just kind of like fit in there not like

608
00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:21,960
it was like a little cube in a big

609
00:24:25,070 --> 00:24:23,340
sphere it was just you know perfectly

610
00:24:26,750 --> 00:24:25,080
fit in in a way

611
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:26,760
um and that you know that was it there

612
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:28,559
was no necessarily propulsion or like

613
00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:31,080
propellers or

614
00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:33,960
um now now as a trained as a trained

615
00:24:39,289 --> 00:24:36,780
pilot and this is no joke I know my

616
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,299
aircraft right I live next to Lockheed

617
00:24:42,890 --> 00:24:41,039
Skunk Works for instance I see the crazy

618
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:42,900
stuff every single day right as you can

619
00:24:46,850 --> 00:24:44,100
imagine

620
00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:46,860
um I know my planes you

621
00:24:51,230 --> 00:24:49,320
are paid to know your planes right in

622
00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:51,240
your aircraft and when you hear

623
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:53,100
something like this what goes through

624
00:24:58,690 --> 00:24:56,280
your mind I mean you have to take uh

625
00:25:02,450 --> 00:24:58,700
your co-pilot or you know your your your

626
00:25:03,529 --> 00:25:02,460
teammate as at his word what goes

627
00:25:04,850 --> 00:25:03,539
through your mind when you hear that

628
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:04,860
kind of description

629
00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:06,900
yeah so

630
00:25:11,149 --> 00:25:09,720
I was um I I had no I had no reason to

631
00:25:11,930 --> 00:25:11,159
doubt what he said

632
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:11,940
um

633
00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:15,840
he you know he's a as a greatest pilot

634
00:25:19,730 --> 00:25:17,700
as any other uh I've had the honor to

635
00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:19,740
serve with and so

636
00:25:23,450 --> 00:25:21,960
it wasn't just what he said it was

637
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,460
because we could still rationalize in

638
00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:24,960
some sense right like we could still

639
00:25:28,669 --> 00:25:26,760
rationalize perhaps some clever device

640
00:25:30,110 --> 00:25:28,679
that looks like that

641
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,120
um and so again we weren't jumping

642
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:32,640
necessarily to some crazy conclusion at

643
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:33,960
this point

644
00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:35,760
um

645
00:25:41,149 --> 00:25:38,760
but you know the way he said it was just

646
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:41,159
like it was just everyone was just very

647
00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:43,260
pissed that this was now a massive

648
00:25:46,730 --> 00:25:44,520
safety issue that we had to deal with

649
00:25:48,830 --> 00:25:46,740
because and I don't remember this for a

650
00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:48,840
fact but this kind of goes back to your

651
00:25:51,289 --> 00:25:50,520
previous point about

652
00:25:53,330 --> 00:25:51,299
um

653
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,340
you know why why are we seeing them now

654
00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:55,200
and and why couldn't we see them with

655
00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:56,700
our eyes but

656
00:26:00,409 --> 00:25:58,500
um I I don't think their radar was

657
00:26:01,610 --> 00:26:00,419
working that day when they went out

658
00:26:02,930 --> 00:26:01,620
there because

659
00:26:04,669 --> 00:26:02,940
I don't think he would have flown

660
00:26:05,870 --> 00:26:04,679
through the object on the he would have

661
00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:05,880
flown through the track file on the

662
00:26:10,850 --> 00:26:07,500
radar because we were respecting them as

663
00:26:12,590 --> 00:26:10,860
objects at this point and so he also

664
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:12,600
returned immediately after that because

665
00:26:16,549 --> 00:26:14,700
he didn't feel comfortable executing the

666
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,559
rest of the flight not knowing if there

667
00:26:20,990 --> 00:26:18,720
was objects around him my supposition is

668
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:21,000
that the radar wasn't working and

669
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:22,559
perhaps the object didn't know the Jets

670
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:24,720
were there either in a sense if they

671
00:26:28,850 --> 00:26:26,340
weren't receiving energy from the jet

672
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:28,860
then perhaps you know for a reason

673
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:30,960
it surprised you know the jet surprised

674
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:32,700
it perhaps I don't know it's just a fun

675
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:35,520
Theory I have okay now you use you've

676
00:26:41,210 --> 00:26:38,220
now said we didn't arrive at a a crazy

677
00:26:43,370 --> 00:26:41,220
conclusion yet your words right you said

678
00:26:44,930 --> 00:26:43,380
that like three times uh yeah so I just

679
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,940
kind of walking us where we were in our

680
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:46,320
mental state right we didn't again it

681
00:26:49,490 --> 00:26:48,059
wasn't like okay now UFOs it was just

682
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:49,500
very much like all right this is some

683
00:26:55,010 --> 00:26:52,320
must be some crazy balloon drone thing

684
00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:55,020
that is some test program thing that

685
00:27:00,169 --> 00:26:56,940
perhaps people

686
00:27:02,510 --> 00:27:00,179
um have have for whatever crazy reason

687
00:27:04,250 --> 00:27:02,520
decided to temporarily test in our

688
00:27:07,010 --> 00:27:04,260
working errors or got blown off course

689
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:07,020
or who knows what well even that is a

690
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,840
crazy conclusion isn't it it's getting

691
00:27:13,730 --> 00:27:11,760
there right like we're we're starting to

692
00:27:15,769 --> 00:27:13,740
like you know we're crossing the the

693
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:15,779
low-hanging fruit off the list here and

694
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:18,000
that's where we're getting to right uh

695
00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:19,260
because that doesn't really make sense

696
00:27:22,669 --> 00:27:20,700
when you when you start to think about

697
00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:22,679
it and I will explain it more but that's

698
00:27:27,529 --> 00:27:24,380
just where we were you know in reality

699
00:27:30,769 --> 00:27:27,539
did you ever get to the crazy conclusion

700
00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:30,779
Point not really because we left

701
00:27:36,289 --> 00:27:33,179
uh we left and went on deployment and

702
00:27:39,230 --> 00:27:36,299
then when we kind of really got to the

703
00:27:42,830 --> 00:27:39,240
point where I would say we were at that

704
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:42,840
point it was when we saw the gimbal

705
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,679
um

706
00:27:48,049 --> 00:27:45,600
and that's just kind of when we stopped

707
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,059
talking about it

708
00:27:53,210 --> 00:27:50,000
why yeah

709
00:27:55,970 --> 00:27:53,220
we were very Loosely told to

710
00:27:58,370 --> 00:27:55,980
um just generally speaking uh and then

711
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:58,380
it was hey we're we're literally getting

712
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,440
ready for war right now so you know we

713
00:28:06,350 --> 00:28:04,080
we it's very easy to keep us focused on

714
00:28:08,029 --> 00:28:06,360
what what we're doing because it's very

715
00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:08,039
dangerous and are there even that

716
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:08,940
training

717
00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:11,279
the set that we're on is typically more

718
00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:13,260
dangerous than the actual combat

719
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:14,760
deployments we go on right so we're

720
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:16,260
doing all our tactics we're flying day

721
00:28:20,510 --> 00:28:17,760
and night we're stressing ourselves out

722
00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:20,520
to get ready for combat so we weren't

723
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:22,020
even in a mental state really this is

724
00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:23,520
the most stressful times of our careers

725
00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:26,220
of our lives and um you don't need

726
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:28,200
Little Green Men yeah that's the last

727
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,900
thing we needed but we we it wasn't it

728
00:28:34,130 --> 00:28:32,159
wasn't about

729
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:34,140
you know we maybe had the right to make

730
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,760
a conclusion like that or start thinking

731
00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:37,440
in that general direction but we were

732
00:28:40,730 --> 00:28:39,960
just in no mental state to start you

733
00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:40,740
know

734
00:28:46,130 --> 00:28:43,500
going down trains trains a thought like

735
00:28:50,330 --> 00:28:46,140
that yeah yeah black cubes and

736
00:28:52,850 --> 00:28:50,340
translucent balls of energy is uh that's

737
00:28:54,529 --> 00:28:52,860
that that's getting to Crazy Town uh for

738
00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:54,539
anybody it and and when you have an

739
00:28:59,330 --> 00:28:56,700
engineering degree in background that's

740
00:29:01,130 --> 00:28:59,340
defying physics and and who has this

741
00:29:03,409 --> 00:29:01,140
kind of technology and now you're

742
00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:03,419
clouding your thought for sure

743
00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:05,820
it's hard to what what's interesting is

744
00:29:09,890 --> 00:29:07,799
that you know a lot of times we look

745
00:29:12,769 --> 00:29:09,900
very zoomed in on this problem and we

746
00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:12,779
try to look for the answers

747
00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:14,760
um right we try to get that picture all

748
00:29:19,610 --> 00:29:17,100
zoomed in and you know we blow it up and

749
00:29:21,289 --> 00:29:19,620
X Y and Z but I think there's a lot more

750
00:29:23,149 --> 00:29:21,299
valuable data in a sense if we zoom out

751
00:29:25,789 --> 00:29:23,159
uh especially what we're seeing on the

752
00:29:28,669 --> 00:29:25,799
East Coast we can zoom out and see

753
00:29:30,590 --> 00:29:28,679
um what's happening outside of that

754
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:30,600
frame right so I just described a single

755
00:29:34,909 --> 00:29:32,399
frame essentially a cube and a sphere

756
00:29:36,649 --> 00:29:34,919
and we can we can't draw too many

757
00:29:39,049 --> 00:29:36,659
conclusions and we could also

758
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,059
rationalize it pretty easy as a balloon

759
00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:41,760
or perhaps some interesting drone test

760
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:44,460
but when you zoom out of time and you

761
00:29:48,909 --> 00:29:47,520
zoom out a little bit uh of a scale and

762
00:29:51,769 --> 00:29:48,919
you say okay

763
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:51,779
how often is this happening and how many

764
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:54,299
of these objects are there and what are

765
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,159
their flight characteristics and

766
00:30:01,310 --> 00:29:58,799
profiles over the course of a day or or

767
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:01,320
longer that they're out there and how do

768
00:30:05,570 --> 00:30:03,600
we then reconcile that information with

769
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:05,580
what we know of normal flight mechanics

770
00:30:12,169 --> 00:30:09,600
of drones of uh energy uh storage and

771
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,179
density and weight and all those things

772
00:30:16,010 --> 00:30:14,399
that also make you say okay wait this

773
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:16,020
probably isn't a drone when you actually

774
00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:18,240
start thinking about it and also why

775
00:30:22,130 --> 00:30:19,919
would it be testing stuff in

776
00:30:24,830 --> 00:30:22,140
international waters in the busiest

777
00:30:29,149 --> 00:30:24,840
airspace on the Eastern Seaboard yeah

778
00:30:32,269 --> 00:30:29,159
certainly and uh the the comments that

779
00:30:33,889 --> 00:30:32,279
have been in the media that you know uh

780
00:30:36,649 --> 00:30:33,899
and have heard many times and some of

781
00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:36,659
them have come from you too as well

782
00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:38,340
um have have stunned a lot of people

783
00:30:44,269 --> 00:30:41,220
including myself which is you know how

784
00:30:49,370 --> 00:30:44,279
often did you see these every day how

785
00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:49,380
many Lots where in our air right and and

786
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,520
and this this has taken uh people uh by

787
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:55,200
surprise

788
00:31:01,850 --> 00:30:58,080
um and when you look back at it now

789
00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:01,860
was it indeed like every day that you

790
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:03,720
got in your FAA team from that point

791
00:31:09,409 --> 00:31:05,760
forward you were going out with this new

792
00:31:11,149 --> 00:31:09,419
radar system and you were you and and

793
00:31:15,169 --> 00:31:11,159
your co-pilots and your Pilots

794
00:31:18,409 --> 00:31:15,179
everything uh we're seeing these things

795
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:18,419
we had a way of somewhat categorizing

796
00:31:23,570 --> 00:31:20,940
these objects on the radar using what we

797
00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:23,580
call the target aspect indicator and

798
00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:25,980
I'll answer a question I promise uh but

799
00:31:30,350 --> 00:31:28,380
this target aspect indicator it's very

800
00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:30,360
smooth and essentially you know if this

801
00:31:34,190 --> 00:31:32,220
is what we see on the radar like a ball

802
00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:34,200
then there's kind of like a tail and it

803
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,520
points where the aircraft is going

804
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,679
essentially right so if a jet turns you

805
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:39,840
see a turn these objects look different

806
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:42,720
they they their target aspect indicator

807
00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:45,720
would kind of jump around as if

808
00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:48,299
um it just either wasn't tracking the in

809
00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:50,460
between or I don't know why but it was

810
00:31:54,049 --> 00:31:52,380
jerky even though the object was moving

811
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,059
in the general direction that was being

812
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,399
indicated it wasn't like going backwards

813
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,080
it was still moving in that direction

814
00:32:02,570 --> 00:32:00,960
and so we could kind of identify these

815
00:32:04,970 --> 00:32:02,580
objects on our radar at least I could

816
00:32:06,830 --> 00:32:04,980
again we weren't doing like a big study

817
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:06,840
we weren't talking about this a lot you

818
00:32:11,889 --> 00:32:09,120
know uh we weren't going around and

819
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:11,899
uh cataloging on a day-by-day basis but

820
00:32:16,850 --> 00:32:15,120
I mean probably 99 of the flights that

821
00:32:18,590 --> 00:32:16,860
we go on out there we would see these

822
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:18,600
objects somewhere within our radar scope

823
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:20,159
on the course of mission at least one or

824
00:32:23,870 --> 00:32:21,419
two that had the the radar

825
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:23,880
characteristics that does not mean we go

826
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,640
and either idea on the flear or visually

827
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:28,799
to say we're seeing them on those but

828
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:30,480
though they would be out there we cover

829
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:32,880
a lot of airspace with our sensor

830
00:32:37,370 --> 00:32:35,039
systems and I'm not going to use any

831
00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:37,380
numbers to quantify it but

832
00:32:42,289 --> 00:32:39,779
um it's a pretty uh wide uh birth of

833
00:32:43,850 --> 00:32:42,299
area that we get to look at and so

834
00:32:45,289 --> 00:32:43,860
um it may not be as surprising as you

835
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:45,299
may think that we would see these

836
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:46,799
objects regularly out there we'd always

837
00:32:50,210 --> 00:32:48,720
see them over the water they're always

838
00:32:52,430 --> 00:32:50,220
over the water would never be over the

839
00:32:55,789 --> 00:32:52,440
land someone over the bay like there's a

840
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,799
lot of like um kind of Inland water

841
00:32:59,510 --> 00:32:57,600
um I don't want to call it that but

842
00:33:02,870 --> 00:32:59,520
there's barrier islands and so there's

843
00:33:05,389 --> 00:33:02,880
kind of an Intercoast there I would I

844
00:33:07,370 --> 00:33:05,399
would occasionally see them over there

845
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:07,380
um and to this point right

846
00:33:12,350 --> 00:33:10,020
um we I perhaps think we might have seen

847
00:33:14,990 --> 00:33:12,360
some in the Middle East but we were

848
00:33:17,149 --> 00:33:15,000
never able to confirm them I did see

849
00:33:19,850 --> 00:33:17,159
um Target aspect indications that were

850
00:33:21,710 --> 00:33:19,860
similar over there but it's so busy over

851
00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:21,720
there and the airspace is so congested

852
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,640
and we're so so busy that there was

853
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:25,679
there was never a consideration to try

854
00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:27,840
to confirm that even if you're able to

855
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:31,140
uh dude can we talk some basic Logistics

856
00:33:37,570 --> 00:33:35,700
here just uh uh for for information

857
00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:37,580
um uh

858
00:33:44,029 --> 00:33:41,100
air speeds when we go back and we listen

859
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,039
to as you have you know David fravor and

860
00:33:51,710 --> 00:33:46,080
and Alec Dietrich

861
00:33:54,850 --> 00:33:51,720
um uh the uh the performances you know

862
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:54,860
80 000 feet to sea level in a second

863
00:34:01,789 --> 00:33:58,640
uh Dave fraver you know just it was gone

864
00:34:04,009 --> 00:34:01,799
and and some of these descriptions of

865
00:34:06,649 --> 00:34:04,019
the Tic Tac just don't don't make any

866
00:34:09,710 --> 00:34:06,659
sense in the world of uh physics as we

867
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:09,720
understand them today did you experience

868
00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:12,000
anything like that that was just out of

869
00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:13,440
the norm

870
00:34:19,010 --> 00:34:15,540
uh I never

871
00:34:21,230 --> 00:34:19,020
um saw anything that uh darted on the

872
00:34:23,770 --> 00:34:21,240
radar I would see them typically at 0.6

873
00:34:26,930 --> 00:34:23,780
to 0.8 Mach uh which is somewhere around

874
00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:26,940
240 maybe 330 knots somewhere in there

875
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,919
depending on altitude

876
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:30,480
um

877
00:34:35,889 --> 00:34:33,119
you would see things on the radar that

878
00:34:37,849 --> 00:34:35,899
would be strange but I hesitate to like

879
00:34:40,849 --> 00:34:37,859
necessarily attribute that to the

880
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,859
reality of the situation all right uh

881
00:34:44,750 --> 00:34:42,720
because I don't necessarily know if that

882
00:34:46,010 --> 00:34:44,760
sensor system is calibrated properly to

883
00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:46,020
be able to feed me that type of

884
00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:48,060
information they're not necessarily

885
00:34:52,430 --> 00:34:50,220
designed to show me perhaps Hypersonic

886
00:34:54,109 --> 00:34:52,440
things that are moving at various speeds

887
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:54,119
maybe that looks like a skip or maybe

888
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,359
that's just bad sensor data so I

889
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,280
generally hesitate to say that however

890
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:01,200
there are a lot of interesting stories

891
00:35:13,690 --> 00:35:08,570
oh we lost you

892
00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:17,650
see this is this is the man right here

893
00:35:23,930 --> 00:35:22,020
let's see if we get Ryan back and uh

894
00:35:25,790 --> 00:35:23,940
Ryan stay with me I don't know if you

895
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:25,800
can hear me Ryan

896
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:27,240
um let's go

897
00:35:36,609 --> 00:35:29,400
I'm gonna send if you can hear me I'm

898
00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:41,630
just when things were getting great

899
00:35:53,450 --> 00:35:50,210
I am trying to see if we still have Ryan

900
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:53,460
here connected

901
00:35:59,089 --> 00:35:58,079
okay uh uh okay he's gone gone

902
00:36:02,390 --> 00:35:59,099
um

903
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:02,400
he's out and coming back so what is

904
00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:04,800
interesting here uh just a quick recap

905
00:36:09,050 --> 00:36:07,500
as I as I wait for uh Ryan to come back

906
00:36:12,410 --> 00:36:09,060
to us

907
00:36:14,109 --> 00:36:12,420
um having this happen on a daily basis

908
00:36:16,970 --> 00:36:14,119
on the East Coast

909
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:16,980
uh uh picked up by so many different

910
00:36:22,490 --> 00:36:19,440
aircraft is uh

911
00:36:24,349 --> 00:36:22,500
uh interesting in of itself but they

912
00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:24,359
have an upgraded radar system that has

913
00:36:31,069 --> 00:36:26,700
been installed uh it's much more

914
00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:31,079
sensitive and then when the radar is

915
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:32,940
picking up on something

916
00:36:38,810 --> 00:36:35,760
all of the other sensors uh and that's

917
00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:38,820
uh the camera systems the FLIR uh the

918
00:36:43,790 --> 00:36:41,700
infrared okay uh yeah that would see

919
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:43,800
that you know I'm not a conspiracy guy

920
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,680
Ron that was the man right there that

921
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:48,720
was the man I can't shut that I might

922
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,720
you know my computer reboot oh is that

923
00:36:55,069 --> 00:36:53,280
what it was see that's the man that's

924
00:36:57,230 --> 00:36:55,079
that's the man right there you know

925
00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:57,240
better randomly reboot I have no idea

926
00:37:01,329 --> 00:36:58,980
why and then I boot up and said it

927
00:37:04,250 --> 00:37:01,339
rebooted because of an error okay

928
00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:04,260
interesting okay so uh and next question

929
00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:07,320
in line I was just doing a recap of uh

930
00:37:12,170 --> 00:37:10,200
uh how the systems work

931
00:37:13,849 --> 00:37:12,180
um the next uh when you're talking about

932
00:37:17,390 --> 00:37:13,859
AirSpeed okay some of these are

933
00:37:19,609 --> 00:37:17,400
stationary some are actually moving uh

934
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:19,619
altitudes what what were you typically

935
00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:21,839
seeing there and were there I'm laughing

936
00:37:26,109 --> 00:37:22,859
because I'm seeing some of these

937
00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:29,270
I Men in Black come and get me yeah yeah

938
00:37:34,730 --> 00:37:31,740
exactly exactly all right

939
00:37:36,589 --> 00:37:34,740
um it's all like fun it's all we're just

940
00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:36,599
having fun where else where I'm sorry

941
00:37:41,569 --> 00:37:39,420
where were we um yeah we're 0.6.8 mock I

942
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:41,579
occasionally see them like 1.1 and 1.2

943
00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:43,980
Mach uh typically that'd be when they

944
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:45,480
just be like buzzing East or something

945
00:37:49,310 --> 00:37:48,000
of that nature like her out into the

946
00:37:51,710 --> 00:37:49,320
ocean

947
00:37:54,589 --> 00:37:51,720
um we'd see them kind of Meandering

948
00:37:55,550 --> 00:37:54,599
vertically as well and so they would

949
00:37:56,750 --> 00:37:55,560
never just

950
00:37:58,730 --> 00:37:56,760
um they would rarely just kind of like

951
00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:58,740
be darting in a very straight line a lot

952
00:38:03,410 --> 00:38:01,040
of time they kind of be appear to be

953
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:03,420
Meandering in a direction uh both

954
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:06,060
vertically and also horizontally right

955
00:38:08,930 --> 00:38:07,920
so if you think like a GPS you go look

956
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:08,940
in the sky and you see like that

957
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,280
perfectly straight Cloud right like you

958
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:13,440
can tell something's on autopilot you

959
00:38:16,010 --> 00:38:14,760
know you see enough of it but when you

960
00:38:17,810 --> 00:38:16,020
you can kind of tell when something

961
00:38:19,609 --> 00:38:17,820
seems almost more organic or if it's

962
00:38:21,230 --> 00:38:19,619
being flown manually and things of that

963
00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:21,240
nature and this kind of seemed Messier

964
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:24,300
in the sense that it was um kind of more

965
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,160
organic in a sense and it would kind of

966
00:38:31,069 --> 00:38:28,079
meander vertically both

967
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:31,079
um down and up and horizontally you know

968
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:33,839
Against the Wind with the wind and so it

969
00:38:37,849 --> 00:38:35,760
was it it seemed like the wind was just

970
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:37,859
not a factor you know it didn't seem

971
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:39,420
like it was like had to fight the win

972
00:38:43,609 --> 00:38:42,060
really it just seems like it had to um

973
00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:43,619
it just seemed like it was there right

974
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:45,839
like and we've seen some reports of that

975
00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:48,480
as we um

976
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:51,660
um get more and more of these these um

977
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:54,660
range Fowler reports that are being

978
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:55,280
um

979
00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:01,680
one they're talking about the object

980
00:39:04,490 --> 00:39:02,880
being

981
00:39:06,410 --> 00:39:04,500
um in the middle of a thunderstorm

982
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:06,420
essentially and like super strong winds

983
00:39:10,370 --> 00:39:09,119
and just perfectly stationary uh and

984
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:10,380
he's got it on his camera and everything

985
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:12,420
else and he's like fighting to stay in

986
00:39:15,470 --> 00:39:13,920
the area and I know what that means I've

987
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:15,480
been there too and when he says fighting

988
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,280
to me in in the air you have 100 knot

989
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:18,960
winds every time you turn it's pushing

990
00:39:23,810 --> 00:39:22,079
you like miles down you know it's like

991
00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:23,820
skidding and you know just have an

992
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,500
object that's just perfectly stationary

993
00:39:29,930 --> 00:39:27,119
out there you you just wouldn't expect

994
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,940
that yeah not affected by it at all yeah

995
00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:32,160
yeah it doesn't make any sense

996
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:33,780
um and what about okay so we have

997
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:36,420
Meandering right and and something uh

998
00:39:42,770 --> 00:39:39,839
under drunken manual control if you will

999
00:39:44,750 --> 00:39:42,780
and not necessarily on autopilot or

1000
00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:44,760
following a GPS track right that would

1001
00:39:49,730 --> 00:39:47,460
make sense and going from point to point

1002
00:39:54,290 --> 00:39:49,740
um what about something more organized

1003
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:54,300
was there uh repeatability was there was

1004
00:39:59,150 --> 00:39:56,880
were these following a pattern at times

1005
00:40:01,609 --> 00:39:59,160
I'll say there was a pattern that they

1006
00:40:04,310 --> 00:40:01,619
seemed to be clustered in our working

1007
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,320
areas right so they weren't necessarily

1008
00:40:08,690 --> 00:40:06,240
they weren't respecting the boundaries

1009
00:40:10,370 --> 00:40:08,700
of the working area both the the outer

1010
00:40:12,650 --> 00:40:10,380
boundaries and also the internal

1011
00:40:14,750 --> 00:40:12,660
boundaries that we use to subdivide and

1012
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:14,760
so they'd Meander across those those sub

1013
00:40:19,010 --> 00:40:16,980
boundaries which is like a kind of

1014
00:40:20,450 --> 00:40:19,020
internal faux pile like hey you know we

1015
00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:20,460
might switch things but you should be

1016
00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:22,140
calling up but still strange to see

1017
00:40:26,510 --> 00:40:25,020
things switching between but like go

1018
00:40:28,250 --> 00:40:26,520
outside the area is kind of like a

1019
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:28,260
violation bust especially at certain

1020
00:40:33,290 --> 00:40:30,780
altitudes you would be in violation of

1021
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:33,300
fa procedures to be going outside of

1022
00:40:36,890 --> 00:40:35,280
those areas in class A airspace

1023
00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:36,900
essentially

1024
00:40:40,609 --> 00:40:38,700
um and so they would not respect those

1025
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:40,619
boundaries as well and you know it's

1026
00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:42,720
interesting to note that the northern

1027
00:40:48,589 --> 00:40:45,900
boundary of that area is a major traffic

1028
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:48,599
light International traffic lane uh that

1029
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:49,920
is specifically designed to Route

1030
00:40:54,109 --> 00:40:52,560
traffic into the U.S and void the areas

1031
00:40:56,450 --> 00:40:54,119
and just to the north of that that

1032
00:40:58,430 --> 00:40:56,460
channel is the essentially the Air Force

1033
00:41:00,170 --> 00:40:58,440
equivalent of our working areas so

1034
00:41:01,790 --> 00:41:00,180
there's this tight band and guess what

1035
00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:01,800
those objects are going over there as

1036
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,960
well so when we talk about this being

1037
00:41:08,089 --> 00:41:06,240
not just the military safety risk but a

1038
00:41:09,410 --> 00:41:08,099
commercial one this is you know just one

1039
00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:09,420
very well

1040
00:41:13,790 --> 00:41:10,140
um

1041
00:41:15,410 --> 00:41:13,800
you know explained example well you have

1042
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:15,420
and here's the other thing we you know

1043
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:17,220
and I understand the military I'm a

1044
00:41:23,329 --> 00:41:19,380
military brat okay well not really my

1045
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,339
dad was in the Army Band so but that's

1046
00:41:27,470 --> 00:41:25,440
it you're in yeah no I did I did my

1047
00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:27,480
world tour right I did that I did that

1048
00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:30,540
move every three years my my whole life

1049
00:41:37,250 --> 00:41:34,440
um but uh and I understand uh the threat

1050
00:41:39,950 --> 00:41:37,260
to our military and I I grew up on on

1051
00:41:42,410 --> 00:41:39,960
basis and I I get that I certainly

1052
00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:42,420
respect it but up and down the East

1053
00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:43,800
Coast where you have you know you have

1054
00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:45,660
JFK and you have dollars and you have

1055
00:41:51,290 --> 00:41:49,380
Miami and Boston and all these other

1056
00:41:54,670 --> 00:41:51,300
airports with the international traffic

1057
00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:54,680
coming out the amount of commercial

1058
00:42:00,349 --> 00:41:57,900
flights it it it's a crazy amount of

1059
00:42:02,750 --> 00:42:00,359
traffic uh going through all of the

1060
00:42:05,329 --> 00:42:02,760
stuff that you are seeing

1061
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:05,339
yeah absolutely and it's every day right

1062
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,960
there's a ton of traffic over there and

1063
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:09,119
yes it's a big sky and

1064
00:42:12,589 --> 00:42:10,560
um that's kind of a saying in the Navy

1065
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:12,599
or I don't know I mean just an aviation

1066
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:14,940
it's kind of a joke a little aircraft

1067
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:18,119
Big Sky it's kind of a way of saying

1068
00:42:21,290 --> 00:42:19,440
um you know hey

1069
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:21,300
kind of like a good luck you'll be fine

1070
00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:24,540
with midairs type situation but the

1071
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:26,280
reality is is that

1072
00:42:29,930 --> 00:42:27,839
um these these these things can have

1073
00:42:32,030 --> 00:42:29,940
serious consequences and we've seen this

1074
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,040
we've seen the reporting grow on this

1075
00:42:36,650 --> 00:42:34,560
we've seen you know 500 plus reports at

1076
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:36,660
this point so you can see just how

1077
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:39,599
common it is on a numbers basis

1078
00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:42,720
um yeah can I can I ask you this are you

1079
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,980
still in communication uh with with navy

1080
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:49,440
Pilots today that are that are active

1081
00:42:54,770 --> 00:42:51,200
duty yeah

1082
00:42:56,510 --> 00:42:54,780
and uh is this still going on on the

1083
00:42:59,630 --> 00:42:56,520
East Coast with the same frequency that

1084
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:59,640
you uh were experiencing

1085
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:00,960
um

1086
00:43:04,849 --> 00:43:03,119
I didn't I'm still touching I don't keep

1087
00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:04,859
a necessarily a regular tab on a lot of

1088
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:06,540
films uh most of my contacts right now

1089
00:43:10,250 --> 00:43:07,920
are actually deployed Believe It or Not

1090
00:43:12,589 --> 00:43:10,260
uh but generally speaking yes it is

1091
00:43:14,930 --> 00:43:12,599
still occurring yeah I mean the reports

1092
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:14,940
the reports that we just received uh are

1093
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:16,920
I mean that were just foiled are from

1094
00:43:22,490 --> 00:43:19,680
recent times and the UAP or not the the

1095
00:43:24,290 --> 00:43:22,500
odni report that just came out

1096
00:43:25,849 --> 00:43:24,300
um I think it was

1097
00:43:28,010 --> 00:43:25,859
um I forget the timeline but it was

1098
00:43:29,930 --> 00:43:28,020
sometime in the past maybe 24 months or

1099
00:43:31,490 --> 00:43:29,940
18 months or so that the majority of the

1100
00:43:33,109 --> 00:43:31,500
new cases have been gathered up and

1101
00:43:35,630 --> 00:43:33,119
that's through new reporting through the

1102
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,640
Navy and the Air Force and I I susp I

1103
00:43:40,490 --> 00:43:37,200
mean we only train in so many places

1104
00:43:42,050 --> 00:43:40,500
right so call it 150 of those reports

1105
00:43:44,030 --> 00:43:42,060
split across three or four Naval

1106
00:43:45,770 --> 00:43:44,040
training facilities how many of those

1107
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:45,780
are off the east coast you know you

1108
00:43:50,270 --> 00:43:48,240
could call it 40 of them or so yeah it's

1109
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,280
a numbers game uh that's a numbers game

1110
00:43:53,870 --> 00:43:52,319
but like yeah so I mean we have we can

1111
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:53,880
quantify this now right it's not like a

1112
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:55,680
mystery like we have we have our second

1113
00:44:00,050 --> 00:43:57,180
round of data we're seeing the numbers

1114
00:44:01,670 --> 00:44:00,060
grow because we're reporting more so you

1115
00:44:04,010 --> 00:44:01,680
know it's it's happening it's still

1116
00:44:07,309 --> 00:44:04,020
there and the government is actively uh

1117
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:07,319
cataloging data on as we speak now now

1118
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,380
oh one more comment too sure sure I I

1119
00:44:15,170 --> 00:44:12,480
don't I I don't really talk to my Navy

1120
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:15,180
folks about this that much uh out of

1121
00:44:18,650 --> 00:44:16,800
respect because this is now an official

1122
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:18,660
program and this is a classified program

1123
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,839
right how do you know the question that

1124
00:44:26,569 --> 00:44:24,480
I was about to ask yeah oh yeah I don't

1125
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:26,579
know so I I don't I don't to your point

1126
00:44:30,890 --> 00:44:28,319
I don't really like Pokemon this if

1127
00:44:31,970 --> 00:44:30,900
someone has a interesting story that

1128
00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:31,980
they want to tell me that's not

1129
00:44:36,589 --> 00:44:34,380
classified cool but I wouldn't I

1130
00:44:38,290 --> 00:44:36,599
wouldn't try to poke around that bear

1131
00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:38,300
the

1132
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:42,540
uh this is I want your opinion here uh

1133
00:44:46,849 --> 00:44:44,400
okay all right I know that you're a

1134
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:46,859
black and white data driven engineer

1135
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:49,440
that's where your brain is I get that

1136
00:44:57,050 --> 00:44:52,160
but sometimes opinions matter okay

1137
00:44:59,630 --> 00:44:57,060
uh the majority of the reporting the

1138
00:45:01,609 --> 00:44:59,640
majority of things that we are hearing

1139
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,619
about and have heard about

1140
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:03,440
come from the Navy

1141
00:45:10,609 --> 00:45:07,680
and it seems uh disproportionate in in

1142
00:45:13,490 --> 00:45:10,619
that direction we have the United States

1143
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:13,500
Air Force right and it's their job to

1144
00:45:17,390 --> 00:45:16,079
fly the skies too as well you know

1145
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:17,400
either the Marines do their thing the

1146
00:45:20,809 --> 00:45:19,200
Army does their thing and Coast Guard's

1147
00:45:24,650 --> 00:45:20,819
got their their helicopters and stuff

1148
00:45:28,130 --> 00:45:24,660
and I get I get that but there has been

1149
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,140
a general lack of attention from the

1150
00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:30,480
United States Air Force why do you think

1151
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:33,960
that is and why is the Navy apparently

1152
00:45:43,730 --> 00:45:40,670
um I'll say this is that I don't know

1153
00:45:46,490 --> 00:45:43,740
like but I think there is a I think it

1154
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:46,500
is I think it is um

1155
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,240
intentional

1156
00:45:53,690 --> 00:45:50,400
and I don't think it's I I think it's

1157
00:45:55,790 --> 00:45:53,700
for I think relatively important reasons

1158
00:45:58,690 --> 00:45:55,800
I don't think that there's necessarily

1159
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:58,700
snubbing their nose at this out of

1160
00:46:03,170 --> 00:46:01,440
stigma or anything of that nature I

1161
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:03,180
think is probably a bit more involved

1162
00:46:07,550 --> 00:46:05,060
and I don't necessarily know the details

1163
00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:07,560
uh but I'll say that's my general

1164
00:46:12,650 --> 00:46:08,819
opinion

1165
00:46:16,130 --> 00:46:12,660
yeah and is it also

1166
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:16,140
um you know taking this one step further

1167
00:46:25,010 --> 00:46:21,180
um is it that uh the Air Force

1168
00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:25,020
has been collecting data they I don't

1169
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:28,260
know this as a fact right uh I'm from

1170
00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:30,660
the outside in but the Air Force must

1171
00:46:35,329 --> 00:46:32,700
have some pretty sophisticated uh

1172
00:46:39,290 --> 00:46:35,339
sensors and and radar installed on their

1173
00:46:41,390 --> 00:46:39,300
planes and and also at at air bases

1174
00:46:43,309 --> 00:46:41,400
around the world we should have the very

1175
00:46:45,530 --> 00:46:43,319
very best of the best of the best I'm

1176
00:46:47,809 --> 00:46:45,540
not saying it's better than the Navy but

1177
00:46:49,490 --> 00:46:47,819
it's got to be equivalent so they have

1178
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:49,500
the ability to pick up the same

1179
00:46:52,849 --> 00:46:50,720
information

1180
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:52,859
and or better

1181
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,460
but yet in this odni report again I'm

1182
00:46:59,870 --> 00:46:58,319
just taking a guess but I would assume

1183
00:47:01,970 --> 00:46:59,880
that most of that information is from

1184
00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:01,980
the United States Navy and it's not

1185
00:47:08,210 --> 00:47:04,680
coming from the Air Force

1186
00:47:10,730 --> 00:47:08,220
uh I expect that at an operational level

1187
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:10,740
like at my level where we were seeing

1188
00:47:16,010 --> 00:47:12,720
things that they're seeing the same

1189
00:47:16,609 --> 00:47:16,020
things right I just think that there is

1190
00:47:18,530 --> 00:47:16,619
um

1191
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:18,540
like you said there must be some process

1192
00:47:24,349 --> 00:47:21,900
that's that's stopping that uh data from

1193
00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:24,359
from continuing forward I don't know

1194
00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:26,280
what it is and like I said I I'm sure

1195
00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:28,380
it's much more complicated than I would

1196
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:31,260
have you know be privy to know I don't

1197
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:33,599
think it is like I said just a nose snub

1198
00:47:37,250 --> 00:47:36,000
I think it is you know I think they are

1199
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:37,260
really Holding Out for some particular

1200
00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:39,599
reason yeah they I think you know since

1201
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:41,880
the closing of against his opinion but

1202
00:47:46,190 --> 00:47:43,920
since uh the closing of Project Blue

1203
00:47:49,069 --> 00:47:46,200
Book in 69 when they said nothing to see

1204
00:47:50,990 --> 00:47:49,079
here right 1969.

1205
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:51,000
um that that's been their attitude ever

1206
00:47:55,309 --> 00:47:53,880
since right so that it has been closed

1207
00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:55,319
off and they're they're in that comfort

1208
00:47:58,910 --> 00:47:56,940
zone and and that's where they're going

1209
00:48:00,650 --> 00:47:58,920
to stay until yeah the Navy wants to

1210
00:48:02,030 --> 00:48:00,660
jump on that grenade for them perhaps

1211
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:02,040
they're more than willing to let them do

1212
00:48:06,290 --> 00:48:04,800
it right exactly exactly exactly I mean

1213
00:48:07,730 --> 00:48:06,300
they can't have two two people leading

1214
00:48:08,990 --> 00:48:07,740
the charge on it so perhaps they're just

1215
00:48:10,970 --> 00:48:09,000
sitting back and letting the Navy

1216
00:48:14,809 --> 00:48:10,980
continue doing what they're doing

1217
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:14,819
there was um oh oh oh oh this is just

1218
00:48:21,950 --> 00:48:18,480
between you and I right what was it like

1219
00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:21,960
you you come back after training and you

1220
00:48:27,950 --> 00:48:24,180
guys hang out you guys talk right right

1221
00:48:29,569 --> 00:48:27,960
ciao whatever watching TV I'm not

1222
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,579
talking about the debrief all right I'm

1223
00:48:32,930 --> 00:48:30,960
not talking about that and sitting down

1224
00:48:35,089 --> 00:48:32,940
and talking uh with your commanding

1225
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:35,099
officers I'm talking about you and your

1226
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:36,480
your friends

1227
00:48:41,150 --> 00:48:39,119
were you guys talking about this and and

1228
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,160
if you were what was that what was that

1229
00:48:46,250 --> 00:48:43,680
conversation like

1230
00:48:47,690 --> 00:48:46,260
we were so like we there's kind of like

1231
00:48:49,370 --> 00:48:47,700
this

1232
00:48:51,470 --> 00:48:49,380
social hierarchy in a sense in a

1233
00:48:53,450 --> 00:48:51,480
squadron and there's the the Joppa which

1234
00:48:55,490 --> 00:48:53,460
is the junior officers and then there's

1235
00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:55,500
kind of your middle management 04s and

1236
00:48:59,450 --> 00:48:57,720
then your commanding officer o5 right

1237
00:49:01,370 --> 00:48:59,460
and so

1238
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:01,380
um there's a there's a room that's kind

1239
00:49:04,490 --> 00:49:03,119
of like the jopa room where it's just

1240
00:49:06,349 --> 00:49:04,500
kind of all the lieutenants and stuff

1241
00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:06,359
and that's where we would be you know

1242
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:09,900
doing our our more uh open conversations

1243
00:49:13,790 --> 00:49:12,240
and whatnot and shooting the [\h__\h]

1244
00:49:15,710 --> 00:49:13,800
um and that's when we would you know

1245
00:49:17,390 --> 00:49:15,720
just wonder what the [\h__\h] was going on

1246
00:49:20,089 --> 00:49:17,400
no one no one wanted to really draw

1247
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,099
conclusions uh but there were plenty of

1248
00:49:24,349 --> 00:49:22,079
jokes because that's you know what we do

1249
00:49:27,170 --> 00:49:24,359
in in a Fighter Squadron

1250
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:27,180
um but there was um there was yeah there

1251
00:49:30,829 --> 00:49:29,280
was no real like I would say like deep

1252
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,839
philosophical thought on what it could

1253
00:49:34,730 --> 00:49:32,880
be it was it was more of just you know

1254
00:49:36,530 --> 00:49:34,740
an uncomfortable topic that there were

1255
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,540
some cracks of jokes and

1256
00:49:40,910 --> 00:49:38,640
and also they'll yeah we have to brief

1257
00:49:42,890 --> 00:49:40,920
about it because they're out there and

1258
00:49:45,170 --> 00:49:42,900
we don't want to hit them so it was very

1259
00:49:46,910 --> 00:49:45,180
pragmatic at the end of the day but you

1260
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:46,920
know like most things in a fire Squadron

1261
00:49:52,370 --> 00:49:49,440
we we treat the uncertainty with humor

1262
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:52,380
yeah so you you must have gotten some of

1263
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:55,440
that right oh okay here comes Graves I

1264
00:49:58,970 --> 00:49:57,359
said no it wasn't me I was not even like

1265
00:50:00,829 --> 00:49:58,980
really like associated with it right

1266
00:50:02,210 --> 00:50:00,839
like it was all it was all of us that

1267
00:50:04,130 --> 00:50:02,220
were seeing it and it was the whole

1268
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:04,140
Squadron and then other squadrons that

1269
00:50:08,089 --> 00:50:06,240
had it so right now

1270
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:08,099
um I was I was not particular in fact I

1271
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:09,359
was probably less involved because I

1272
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:10,680
didn't even really see it with my eyes

1273
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:12,720
you know other people were seeing them

1274
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:14,400
first and you know or having bigger

1275
00:50:18,770 --> 00:50:17,280
issues with this so now uh before we

1276
00:50:20,450 --> 00:50:18,780
we're gonna take a break in about five

1277
00:50:23,329 --> 00:50:20,460
minutes when we come back we'll talk

1278
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:23,339
about uh the odni report

1279
00:50:31,490 --> 00:50:27,359
um I would certainly say that uh and I

1280
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:31,500
watched uh with uh with great curiosity

1281
00:50:36,829 --> 00:50:34,319
uh this is 60 Minutes episode

1282
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:36,839
um and there has been a gen General

1283
00:50:43,730 --> 00:50:39,440
openness with the media

1284
00:50:46,210 --> 00:50:43,740
were you surprised that you were going

1285
00:50:51,049 --> 00:50:46,220
to go from the Navy

1286
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:51,059
into this world of of you know

1287
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:55,200
not only the word UFO right or UAP but

1288
00:50:59,690 --> 00:50:57,839
also what comes along with that with the

1289
00:51:03,109 --> 00:50:59,700
Department of Defense or the NSA of the

1290
00:51:05,569 --> 00:51:03,119
CIA or or this community or the UFO

1291
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:05,579
Community it's a whole different ball

1292
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,599
game isn't it yeah I'd uh I had zero

1293
00:51:12,530 --> 00:51:11,520
expectations that my life was going to

1294
00:51:15,410 --> 00:51:12,540
take this turn

1295
00:51:17,809 --> 00:51:15,420
uh I I I I didn't know what I was

1296
00:51:19,609 --> 00:51:17,819
getting myself into but uh I'm happy I I

1297
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:19,619
happy I did I mean I stand by what I did

1298
00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:21,359
and I would have done it I would do it

1299
00:51:25,010 --> 00:51:22,680
again

1300
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:25,020
um I think that you know we don't

1301
00:51:28,190 --> 00:51:26,400
necessarily know those conversations

1302
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:28,200
gonna end I don't know where it's

1303
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:30,420
necessarily going to end uh but even

1304
00:51:36,770 --> 00:51:33,599
with call it a an oversized risk of of

1305
00:51:38,809 --> 00:51:36,780
failure or just embarrassment or you

1306
00:51:40,730 --> 00:51:38,819
know career suicide or whatever you want

1307
00:51:42,349 --> 00:51:40,740
to call it I think it's too important of

1308
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:42,359
a conversation there's too much

1309
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:45,119
opportunity risk to ignore something

1310
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,520
like this and whether it's because we're

1311
00:51:50,569 --> 00:51:48,960
going to find out we're not alone or

1312
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:50,579
whether we find out we're being spied on

1313
00:51:56,930 --> 00:51:53,040
or by a foreign Nation it's interesting

1314
00:51:59,089 --> 00:51:56,940
either way now a little esoteric it says

1315
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:59,099
going a little bit outside but I am

1316
00:52:05,630 --> 00:52:01,200
interested in this

1317
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,640
um did you ever have a point of what you

1318
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:07,200
thought may have been

1319
00:52:12,170 --> 00:52:10,319
a contact through consciousness

1320
00:52:14,690 --> 00:52:12,180
you know like maybe the two were out

1321
00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:14,700
there just making you know hanging out

1322
00:52:19,569 --> 00:52:17,400
with friends and and and you knew that

1323
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:19,579
they were there there wasn't anything

1324
00:52:24,109 --> 00:52:22,319
adversarial it's like walking through

1325
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:24,119
the woods and you've got squirrels off

1326
00:52:30,349 --> 00:52:26,160
in the distance did you ever have like

1327
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:30,359
that a conscious connection no

1328
00:52:35,930 --> 00:52:32,700
um no I can't say I did

1329
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:35,940
and the dying is such a incredible act

1330
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:37,680
and I didn't appreciate at the time but

1331
00:52:42,290 --> 00:52:39,599
while we're out there it's just such

1332
00:52:45,589 --> 00:52:42,300
intense focus and we use a word that we

1333
00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:45,599
call a scan and the scan is literally us

1334
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,180
moving our Focus From the different

1335
00:52:52,430 --> 00:52:50,160
areas and our different tools inside of

1336
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:52,440
our Jet by the by the millisecond in

1337
00:52:57,950 --> 00:52:54,960
some cases to gather data and and air

1338
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:57,960
speeds and radar system all that stuff

1339
00:53:03,589 --> 00:53:00,240
and it's in a sense a very meditative

1340
00:53:05,690 --> 00:53:03,599
process and we're so very focused that I

1341
00:53:06,290 --> 00:53:05,700
would almost think it would be

1342
00:53:08,329 --> 00:53:06,300
um

1343
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:08,339
easy to identify like an intrusive

1344
00:53:14,030 --> 00:53:11,040
thought like that in some sense right

1345
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:14,040
um but I I can't I can't claim I did

1346
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:20,890
how you doing today

1347
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:24,000
well I mean I you know we do also have

1348
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,880
like seven radios in the Jet right and

1349
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:29,040
not the I mean we've got ICS I can hear

1350
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:30,720
my guy in the back seat farting

1351
00:53:35,390 --> 00:53:33,200
sometimes so I mean

1352
00:53:38,690 --> 00:53:35,400
who knows it might be getting some mixed

1353
00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:38,700
signals yeah yeah yeah absolutely

1354
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:42,119
um now the the movement that we have

1355
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:43,680
we're going to come back and talk about

1356
00:53:51,049 --> 00:53:48,240
the odni but uh with the openness that

1357
00:53:54,290 --> 00:53:51,059
seems to be going on

1358
00:53:57,950 --> 00:53:54,300
um you have met with uh our elected

1359
00:54:01,250 --> 00:53:57,960
officials uh in on on Capitol Hill

1360
00:54:03,710 --> 00:54:01,260
are they asking questions from the

1361
00:54:06,910 --> 00:54:03,720
mindset of they don't know anything

1362
00:54:09,290 --> 00:54:06,920
about this right they don't and and and

1363
00:54:14,450 --> 00:54:09,300
this has been going on for a while do

1364
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:14,460
they seem surprised right and that they

1365
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:16,319
need these answers or are they coming at

1366
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,000
it from another area

1367
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:20,400
they've seen the data right

1368
00:54:24,829 --> 00:54:22,800
um it's it's not that far away I mean

1369
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:24,839
it's it's there right it's on the

1370
00:54:28,970 --> 00:54:26,880
supernet we've gathered the data even if

1371
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:28,980
it just want to say throw away the past

1372
00:54:33,049 --> 00:54:31,200
you know number of decades and just look

1373
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:33,059
at what we've gathered over the past you

1374
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:35,819
know three to four years with the new

1375
00:54:41,210 --> 00:54:37,440
reporting things there's enough just

1376
00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:41,220
right there to make them sure of their

1377
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:43,260
um convictions and we're seeing that

1378
00:54:47,329 --> 00:54:45,359
right they are they're not ashamed to

1379
00:54:49,970 --> 00:54:47,339
delve into this topic and answer

1380
00:54:52,849 --> 00:54:49,980
questions about it uh they sound as

1381
00:54:54,650 --> 00:54:52,859
curious as I am right uh because they've

1382
00:54:56,270 --> 00:54:54,660
they've had the opportunity to receive

1383
00:54:57,950 --> 00:54:56,280
this information

1384
00:55:00,589 --> 00:54:57,960
have they

1385
00:55:02,210 --> 00:55:00,599
um uh and this isn't classified you can

1386
00:55:05,809 --> 00:55:02,220
you can answer this I feel pretty

1387
00:55:08,450 --> 00:55:05,819
comfortable do they use words like UFOs

1388
00:55:13,069 --> 00:55:08,460
do they use words like extraterrestrial

1389
00:55:16,490 --> 00:55:13,079
uh when when trying to find answers are

1390
00:55:18,589 --> 00:55:16,500
is their mind questioning that right are

1391
00:55:21,890 --> 00:55:18,599
they trying to get answers from

1392
00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:21,900
from out there too as well or is it a

1393
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,140
purely an adversarial possible Chinese

1394
00:55:30,049 --> 00:55:27,599
Russian threat no they're very specific

1395
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:30,059
in the language that has been used to

1396
00:55:36,770 --> 00:55:33,359
create the Aero office and even with the

1397
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:36,780
passing of the 2023 ndaa National

1398
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:38,880
Defense authorization act they very

1399
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,520
explicitly have done their due diligence

1400
00:55:46,190 --> 00:55:43,680
in homework and writing that legislation

1401
00:55:48,589 --> 00:55:46,200
to ensure that the target of

1402
00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:48,599
Investigation is the unknown

1403
00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:51,240
it is the unknown and the the

1404
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:53,640
adversarial aspect and those things if

1405
00:55:57,410 --> 00:55:55,680
if and or when because I expect they

1406
00:55:59,930 --> 00:55:57,420
probably will be part of this in some

1407
00:56:02,210 --> 00:55:59,940
nature they will get of course filtered

1408
00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:02,220
out to the appropriate channels

1409
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:04,500
um we just saw recently in a uh

1410
00:56:10,250 --> 00:56:06,960
PowerPoint presentation from Dr Sean

1411
00:56:12,349 --> 00:56:10,260
Kirkpatrick the director of uh doj's

1412
00:56:14,450 --> 00:56:12,359
Aero office that he gave to the National

1413
00:56:15,230 --> 00:56:14,460
Transportation board

1414
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:15,240
um

1415
00:56:20,089 --> 00:56:18,000
and inside that presentation

1416
00:56:23,150 --> 00:56:20,099
um they make it pretty clear they make

1417
00:56:25,609 --> 00:56:23,160
it very clear that you know this is

1418
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,619
identified as an ongoing Aviation safety

1419
00:56:29,930 --> 00:56:27,359
risk that they now need to integrate

1420
00:56:32,690 --> 00:56:29,940
into our essentially our our policy and

1421
00:56:34,849 --> 00:56:32,700
our and our procedural framework for

1422
00:56:38,089 --> 00:56:34,859
Aviation safety both on the military and

1423
00:56:40,010 --> 00:56:38,099
the commercial side and so

1424
00:56:42,170 --> 00:56:40,020
so yeah I don't know does that answer

1425
00:56:43,490 --> 00:56:42,180
your question well it it it it it it

1426
00:56:45,650 --> 00:56:43,500
does

1427
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:45,660
um they have to be I'm talking about

1428
00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:47,280
elected officials

1429
00:56:52,970 --> 00:56:51,119
um uh just as curious as as anybody else

1430
00:56:54,829 --> 00:56:52,980
I mean they've grown up oh yeah about

1431
00:56:57,710 --> 00:56:54,839
the specific yeah let me let me address

1432
00:57:00,049 --> 00:56:57,720
the point on the particular uh terms

1433
00:57:02,450 --> 00:57:00,059
um and so yeah and so he's approaching

1434
00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:02,460
that as and he's been targeted by

1435
00:57:07,490 --> 00:57:04,380
Congress to the legislation specifically

1436
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:07,500
to look into what we call this anomalous

1437
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:10,079
side of things right uh and so to get

1438
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:11,640
back to that we've seen the name

1439
00:57:16,490 --> 00:57:14,160
actually update from aerial to Aerospace

1440
00:57:17,690 --> 00:57:16,500
to you know to now anomalous objects

1441
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:17,700
right we're trying to get rid of the

1442
00:57:22,670 --> 00:57:19,680
domain nonsense so that we can't have

1443
00:57:25,790 --> 00:57:22,680
perhaps the air force uh say well you

1444
00:57:27,950 --> 00:57:25,800
know it's actually uh us a trans medium

1445
00:57:30,349 --> 00:57:27,960
object not an air object and so that's

1446
00:57:31,970 --> 00:57:30,359
no longer you know we're no longer to

1447
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,980
comply with your data requests right

1448
00:57:35,690 --> 00:57:33,839
they're trying to get past all that

1449
00:57:38,089 --> 00:57:35,700
because we are again they are ready to

1450
00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:38,099
focus on the anomalous and you know

1451
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:40,200
whether words like you described are

1452
00:57:43,790 --> 00:57:41,760
being used

1453
00:57:45,650 --> 00:57:43,800
um extraterrestrial alien I mean we we

1454
00:57:47,930 --> 00:57:45,660
hear those words but I think it's in

1455
00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:47,940
everyone's best interest uh to be

1456
00:57:52,490 --> 00:57:49,980
agnostic and what that anomalous thing

1457
00:57:53,630 --> 00:57:52,500
could be and it most likely won't be one

1458
00:57:56,809 --> 00:57:53,640
thing

1459
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:56,819
um I I recommend that just due to fear

1460
00:58:02,630 --> 00:57:59,760
of anthropomization of of the topic and

1461
00:58:04,430 --> 00:58:02,640
thinking that um you know drawing false

1462
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,440
conclusions are going down false trains

1463
00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:06,240
before or trains of thought before we

1464
00:58:11,210 --> 00:58:08,720
have the proper data to do so yeah

1465
00:58:13,549 --> 00:58:11,220
absolutely you know what scare what

1466
00:58:16,930 --> 00:58:13,559
would scare the crap out of me is if it

1467
00:58:19,790 --> 00:58:16,940
was Chinese that's a scary thought right

1468
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:19,800
I'd rather have it be alien I mean

1469
00:58:24,410 --> 00:58:22,079
that's that's a safer Zone to be playing

1470
00:58:27,170 --> 00:58:24,420
in than to have some kind of crazy

1471
00:58:28,849 --> 00:58:27,180
technology like this in the hands of uh

1472
00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:28,859
somebody that doesn't have our best

1473
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:31,440
interest in play absolutely or I'd say

1474
00:58:35,690 --> 00:58:33,599
say it's I mean I I bet it's all of the

1475
00:58:37,609 --> 00:58:35,700
above right if if we are if we are

1476
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:37,619
regularly observing things out there

1477
00:58:41,329 --> 00:58:39,599
that would be the perfect cover for Ford

1478
00:58:44,089 --> 00:58:41,339
Nation and then come in and try to mimic

1479
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,099
that right and to to use that cover in

1480
00:58:49,069 --> 00:58:46,319
order to sit there and Inspire our

1481
00:58:51,109 --> 00:58:49,079
technology and our tactics

1482
00:58:53,329 --> 00:58:51,119
um let's take our break uh stay right

1483
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:53,339
there Ryan uh we'll take a quick break

1484
00:58:57,109 --> 00:58:54,960
this is Fade to Black I guess tonight

1485
00:59:01,789 --> 00:58:57,119
Ryan Graves he's finally with us for the

1486
00:59:03,530 --> 00:59:01,799
first time and I'll be right back

1487
00:59:05,870 --> 00:59:03,540
this is Jimmy Church of Fade to Black

1488
00:59:08,089 --> 00:59:05,880
please visit all of our sponsors we're

1489
00:59:09,890 --> 00:59:08,099
taking a quick break here all of the

1490
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:09,900
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1491
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1507
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1508
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1509
01:00:01,370 --> 00:59:58,440
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1510
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1511
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1519
01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:24,480
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1520
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1521
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1527
01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:45,960
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1531
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1532
01:01:00,670 --> 01:00:57,480
can do all of that on the links below

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for info and tickets go to

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all right welcome back I'm your host

1561
01:02:20,690 --> 01:02:19,140
Timmy church is it's uh an amazing

1562
01:02:25,010 --> 01:02:20,700
conversation we've got going on tonight

1563
01:02:28,549 --> 01:02:25,020
with Ryan Graves and uh I'm waiting uh

1564
01:02:31,309 --> 01:02:28,559
for Ryan uh to to come back and join us

1565
01:02:34,970 --> 01:02:31,319
here uh he's he's probably getting

1566
01:02:37,190 --> 01:02:34,980
coffee and uh he's on he's on the east

1567
01:02:39,710 --> 01:02:37,200
coast and what we're going to be talking

1568
01:02:43,569 --> 01:02:39,720
about next is uh two things we're going

1569
01:02:47,510 --> 01:02:43,579
to be talking about the ndaa uh for

1570
01:02:50,809 --> 01:02:47,520
2023. Ryan welcome back welcome back

1571
01:02:52,609 --> 01:02:50,819
um and of course the odni report now

1572
01:02:53,329 --> 01:02:52,619
Ryan there is

1573
01:02:55,309 --> 01:02:53,339
um

1574
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:55,319
uh two points that that I want to make

1575
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:57,839
here I'll do it very briefly that

1576
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,720
historically speaking with the last uh

1577
01:03:06,049 --> 01:03:03,359
report that came out in August of last

1578
01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:06,059
year we got or now wait a minute is it

1579
01:03:12,109 --> 01:03:09,119
two years ago now or uh uh 2020 yeah

1580
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:12,119
we're in 2023 right okay so we kind of

1581
01:03:18,650 --> 01:03:14,160
skipped uh a little bit there but anyway

1582
01:03:20,809 --> 01:03:18,660
the first report again focused uh sort

1583
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:20,819
of and we're taking guesses here but

1584
01:03:27,109 --> 01:03:23,700
like from the Nimitz forward you know a

1585
01:03:29,470 --> 01:03:27,119
a modern historical context

1586
01:03:33,410 --> 01:03:29,480
um and in this report

1587
01:03:36,049 --> 01:03:33,420
uh you know focused on what has been

1588
01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:36,059
reported since the last report okay what

1589
01:03:41,450 --> 01:03:38,700
we're going to come back to that but I

1590
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:41,460
now I want to talk about the ndaa

1591
01:03:46,309 --> 01:03:44,400
because there's a point in the ndaa

1592
01:03:48,530 --> 01:03:46,319
that's written into law that nobody else

1593
01:03:52,670 --> 01:03:48,540
is talking about I am

1594
01:03:56,289 --> 01:03:52,680
and that is uh written into law there is

1595
01:04:00,530 --> 01:03:56,299
a mandate that the dod and the odni

1596
01:04:03,549 --> 01:04:00,540
investigate all military reports going

1597
01:04:08,809 --> 01:04:03,559
back to January 1st

1598
01:04:10,089 --> 01:04:08,819
1945. that report by law is due in June

1599
01:04:15,950 --> 01:04:10,099
of

1600
01:04:18,049 --> 01:04:15,960
been there about these last two reports

1601
01:04:20,390 --> 01:04:18,059
being a modern historical military

1602
01:04:22,609 --> 01:04:20,400
perspective right

1603
01:04:27,530 --> 01:04:22,619
um and not looking at other historical

1604
01:04:31,309 --> 01:04:27,540
events uh in the past now that is is is

1605
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,319
law how important is it that the OD and

1606
01:04:37,069 --> 01:04:33,839
I go back and and the Department of

1607
01:04:40,849 --> 01:04:37,079
Defense and and revisit their own

1608
01:04:44,569 --> 01:04:40,859
reporting on on UFOs well back then it

1609
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:44,579
was UFOs from January 1st 1945

1610
01:04:48,170 --> 01:04:46,559
I mean it's incredibly important right

1611
01:04:49,549 --> 01:04:48,180
and I think it's

1612
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:49,559
um I mean I think people have been

1613
01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:51,119
asking for this long before I've been

1614
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:53,339
involved in this topic

1615
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:54,720
um I think

1616
01:05:00,410 --> 01:04:58,789
I think it's I think it's a really

1617
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:00,420
powerful statement

1618
01:05:04,849 --> 01:05:02,880
by Congress and by the people that uh

1619
01:05:07,130 --> 01:05:04,859
helped write this legislation to show

1620
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:07,140
that they are serious about uh working

1621
01:05:11,690 --> 01:05:09,119
through this not just looking at it from

1622
01:05:14,349 --> 01:05:11,700
now but going through and uncovering the

1623
01:05:19,789 --> 01:05:14,359
skeletons to figure out what's going on

1624
01:05:22,670 --> 01:05:19,799
if we go back uh historically uh well it

1625
01:05:25,549 --> 01:05:22,680
uh it it's it's 40 years now it doesn't

1626
01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:25,559
it seems like yesterday but the Air

1627
01:05:31,789 --> 01:05:29,940
Force has their own case uh heavily

1628
01:05:35,630 --> 01:05:31,799
documented and I'm talking about

1629
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:35,640
rendelshim in in the United Kingdom and

1630
01:05:43,190 --> 01:05:40,079
in 1980 right New Year's 1980 and those

1631
01:05:45,530 --> 01:05:43,200
Witnesses and and that paperwork is here

1632
01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:45,540
this that's a even though it's 40 years

1633
01:05:52,190 --> 01:05:48,480
old now you know time flies but it's a

1634
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:52,200
modern case that the odni and the

1635
01:05:56,690 --> 01:05:54,240
Department of Defense can go back and

1636
01:06:00,650 --> 01:05:56,700
look at and those witnesses can be

1637
01:06:03,410 --> 01:06:00,660
brought forward should they hear from uh

1638
01:06:05,809 --> 01:06:03,420
one of their own cases uh an Air Force

1639
01:06:08,089 --> 01:06:05,819
case albeit in from the United Kingdom

1640
01:06:10,010 --> 01:06:08,099
but should those Witnesses come forward

1641
01:06:12,109 --> 01:06:10,020
and and speak about this

1642
01:06:16,010 --> 01:06:12,119
I well yeah I would I would encourage

1643
01:06:18,829 --> 01:06:16,020
them to and I think this um legislation

1644
01:06:21,230 --> 01:06:18,839
um enables them to do so

1645
01:06:23,809 --> 01:06:21,240
um it does provide a lot of protections

1646
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:23,819
for people that do have

1647
01:06:26,150 --> 01:06:24,480
um

1648
01:06:29,450 --> 01:06:26,160
knowledge of

1649
01:06:32,089 --> 01:06:29,460
um illegal uh programs or programs that

1650
01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:32,099
have not conformed to proper reporting

1651
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:34,799
mechanisms uh things of that nature and

1652
01:06:37,789 --> 01:06:36,720
so I think that will we're going to find

1653
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:37,799
out

1654
01:06:41,569 --> 01:06:40,079
um they enter that question maybe not

1655
01:06:42,370 --> 01:06:41,579
whether they should but whether they

1656
01:06:44,270 --> 01:06:42,380
will

1657
01:06:45,950 --> 01:06:44,280
sometime in the near future at least

1658
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:45,960
that's what this legislation will enable

1659
01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:48,240
and from what I've you know heard

1660
01:06:52,670 --> 01:06:50,700
through the chatter that's already begun

1661
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,680
that process is already gone and there

1662
01:06:56,329 --> 01:06:54,480
have been individuals that have come

1663
01:06:59,809 --> 01:06:56,339
forward to communicate

1664
01:07:02,450 --> 01:06:59,819
um with through those proper channels to

1665
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:02,460
tell what they have to tell were you

1666
01:07:10,190 --> 01:07:07,200
surprised at the the language uh from uh

1667
01:07:13,730 --> 01:07:10,200
representative uh Burchette

1668
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:13,740
um he's upset right we've been lied to I

1669
01:07:18,289 --> 01:07:16,559
don't trust the government and uh we

1670
01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:18,299
we've got to get that we've got to find

1671
01:07:23,569 --> 01:07:20,940
out what uh the Department of Defense

1672
01:07:25,309 --> 01:07:23,579
knows we we need to get to the bottom of

1673
01:07:27,770 --> 01:07:25,319
this are you surprised to have an

1674
01:07:29,630 --> 01:07:27,780
elected official to step forward and and

1675
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:29,640
put everything on the table like he has

1676
01:07:33,770 --> 01:07:31,920
if you asked me that a few years ago I

1677
01:07:35,690 --> 01:07:33,780
would say yes but frankly we've seen a

1678
01:07:37,789 --> 01:07:35,700
lot of electorate elected officials do

1679
01:07:40,250 --> 01:07:37,799
that he's been more you know a bit vocal

1680
01:07:42,109 --> 01:07:40,260
on it uh in one way but you know there's

1681
01:07:44,329 --> 01:07:42,119
been other ways that politicians have

1682
01:07:46,730 --> 01:07:44,339
kind of you know communicated on this

1683
01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:46,740
topic and you know that that's some very

1684
01:07:51,650 --> 01:07:49,200
senior uh members within this in our

1685
01:07:53,630 --> 01:07:51,660
service committee and and and Senate

1686
01:07:55,730 --> 01:07:53,640
Select Community on intelligence uh

1687
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:55,740
putting you know putting these things in

1688
01:08:01,490 --> 01:07:59,280
motion uh and ensuring that um the dod

1689
01:08:05,029 --> 01:08:01,500
and the other entities that maybe in

1690
01:08:07,609 --> 01:08:05,039
involves our our under you know are

1691
01:08:09,289 --> 01:08:07,619
being pursued so that we can put this to

1692
01:08:11,569 --> 01:08:09,299
rest one way or another

1693
01:08:13,430 --> 01:08:11,579
are they uh I'm talking about Capitol

1694
01:08:15,470 --> 01:08:13,440
Hill are they in communication with you

1695
01:08:17,329 --> 01:08:15,480
do you have open lines of communication

1696
01:08:19,430 --> 01:08:17,339
are they reaching out

1697
01:08:21,050 --> 01:08:19,440
I wouldn't describe it in that

1698
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:21,060
necessarily manner I mean I've reached

1699
01:08:25,010 --> 01:08:23,759
out to them and I've I've especially I

1700
01:08:26,990 --> 01:08:25,020
would say over the past year I've

1701
01:08:28,249 --> 01:08:27,000
reached out a lot maybe a year and a

1702
01:08:30,590 --> 01:08:28,259
half

1703
01:08:33,289 --> 01:08:30,600
um and that you know that goes you know

1704
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:33,299
for a lot of people related to this

1705
01:08:37,070 --> 01:08:34,319
topic

1706
01:08:39,229 --> 01:08:37,080
um you know I've been communicating uh

1707
01:08:42,590 --> 01:08:39,239
to NASA on this topic and communicating

1708
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:42,600
uh on the hill and I I they're listening

1709
01:08:46,130 --> 01:08:43,920
but I don't they're not necessarily

1710
01:08:47,390 --> 01:08:46,140
seeking me out for for my advice at this

1711
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,400
point

1712
01:08:52,010 --> 01:08:49,920
um I know that uh uh you know because of

1713
01:08:53,930 --> 01:08:52,020
your engineering background

1714
01:08:56,870 --> 01:08:53,940
um and your interest in science and

1715
01:09:00,590 --> 01:08:56,880
engineering when you have somebody like

1716
01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:00,600
Avi Loeb you know from Harvard uh also

1717
01:09:06,289 --> 01:09:02,940
you know break ranks uh wrote an

1718
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:06,299
Incredible Book uh extraterrestrial and

1719
01:09:10,130 --> 01:09:07,920
he's been a guest on the show many times

1720
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:10,140
and I've had dinner with them right I've

1721
01:09:15,890 --> 01:09:12,480
sat and just listen and when you're

1722
01:09:18,410 --> 01:09:15,900
around somebody that intelligent that uh

1723
01:09:20,329 --> 01:09:18,420
can speak in another their language that

1724
01:09:21,590 --> 01:09:20,339
you and I know very little about if you

1725
01:09:26,749 --> 01:09:21,600
know what I mean

1726
01:09:29,809 --> 01:09:26,759
but he is absolutely convinced that the

1727
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:29,819
possibility is real and that we need to

1728
01:09:36,590 --> 01:09:33,359
apply the science here we need to to to

1729
01:09:40,010 --> 01:09:36,600
get focused and that seems to be where

1730
01:09:43,669 --> 01:09:40,020
we are today when you look at the odni

1731
01:09:45,769 --> 01:09:43,679
report and the the conversation from the

1732
01:09:47,749 --> 01:09:45,779
military is we don't know what's going

1733
01:09:49,849 --> 01:09:47,759
on but we've got to look at the data

1734
01:09:53,329 --> 01:09:49,859
we've got to start applying the science

1735
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:53,339
do we need that cooperation from from

1736
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,920
universities and from scientists and

1737
01:09:59,150 --> 01:09:57,600
from the Department of Defense and all

1738
01:10:00,709 --> 01:09:59,160
get on the same page to try to figure

1739
01:10:03,410 --> 01:10:00,719
out what's going on

1740
01:10:06,650 --> 01:10:03,420
I think generally yes I think we're

1741
01:10:08,689 --> 01:10:06,660
we're seeing that form up in in a lot of

1742
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:08,699
ways and you know I've seen the term

1743
01:10:13,189 --> 01:10:10,800
whole of government approach I've seen

1744
01:10:15,350 --> 01:10:13,199
emerging National effort I've seen those

1745
01:10:16,970 --> 01:10:15,360
terms be be thrown around because that's

1746
01:10:19,729 --> 01:10:16,980
that's essentially what we are seeing

1747
01:10:20,450 --> 01:10:19,739
and we're seeing that essentially

1748
01:10:23,149 --> 01:10:20,460
um

1749
01:10:26,570 --> 01:10:23,159
being headquartered within the dod now

1750
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:26,580
but the the era office has has fingers

1751
01:10:30,890 --> 01:10:28,800
out and is is able to coordinate with

1752
01:10:32,689 --> 01:10:30,900
other uh government agencies and things

1753
01:10:35,390 --> 01:10:32,699
of that nature to bring in the proper

1754
01:10:37,970 --> 01:10:35,400
resources that they need in order to

1755
01:10:39,830 --> 01:10:37,980
continue this conversation uh but I

1756
01:10:42,350 --> 01:10:39,840
don't think that necessarily means that

1757
01:10:43,930 --> 01:10:42,360
we have to necessarily depend on the

1758
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:43,940
government to lead that conversation

1759
01:10:47,990 --> 01:10:45,840
we're at a point where the

1760
01:10:50,810 --> 01:10:48,000
democratization of technology is such

1761
01:10:54,110 --> 01:10:50,820
that I think it is possible for us to

1762
01:10:56,510 --> 01:10:54,120
achieve our own data sets it is possible

1763
01:10:59,149 --> 01:10:56,520
for organizations outside of the

1764
01:11:01,070 --> 01:10:59,159
government to move the conversation and

1765
01:11:02,810 --> 01:11:01,080
afford and I think of course the

1766
01:11:05,209 --> 01:11:02,820
government can probably throw jet fuel

1767
01:11:06,649 --> 01:11:05,219
on that due to the the data sets and the

1768
01:11:09,229 --> 01:11:06,659
sensor systems that they have available

1769
01:11:10,729 --> 01:11:09,239
but of course that's not always going to

1770
01:11:12,410 --> 01:11:10,739
be what they can do due to national

1771
01:11:14,689 --> 01:11:12,420
security reasons and things of that

1772
01:11:16,850 --> 01:11:14,699
nature and sometimes it's just simply

1773
01:11:18,890 --> 01:11:16,860
not the thing that's being observed or

1774
01:11:20,990 --> 01:11:18,900
the conclusion that you would draw from

1775
01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:21,000
seeing it but rather the fact that you

1776
01:11:23,990 --> 01:11:22,800
can even see it or the the fact that

1777
01:11:25,970 --> 01:11:24,000
you're seeing it at a certain location

1778
01:11:28,010 --> 01:11:25,980
right just makes it so that you just

1779
01:11:29,570 --> 01:11:28,020
can't declassify the information even if

1780
01:11:31,010 --> 01:11:29,580
you want to just because it does have

1781
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:31,020
real world political you know

1782
01:11:36,830 --> 01:11:32,880
International

1783
01:11:37,729 --> 01:11:36,840
um uh geopolitical consequences

1784
01:11:39,709 --> 01:11:37,739
um

1785
01:11:41,750 --> 01:11:39,719
and uh

1786
01:11:44,510 --> 01:11:41,760
but but let me just say let me add this

1787
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:44,520
but so so how do we do that right like

1788
01:11:49,010 --> 01:11:46,800
we understand what sensors could be

1789
01:11:50,930 --> 01:11:49,020
available to understand these right we

1790
01:11:53,149 --> 01:11:50,940
we are we we understand we can see them

1791
01:11:55,550 --> 01:11:53,159
with an apg-79 radar right that tells us

1792
01:11:56,930 --> 01:11:55,560
something and we can continue to build

1793
01:12:01,010 --> 01:11:56,940
on that

1794
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:01,020
um what I I'm at the so I leave an

1795
01:12:04,790 --> 01:12:02,640
organization at the American Institute

1796
01:12:07,370 --> 01:12:04,800
of Aeronautics and astronautics uh

1797
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:07,380
called the the unidentified anomalous uh

1798
01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:09,120
phenomenon integration Outreach

1799
01:12:14,350 --> 01:12:10,560
committee and it's a permanent committee

1800
01:12:16,850 --> 01:12:14,360
within the aiaa or called AIA

1801
01:12:18,770 --> 01:12:16,860
it's a permanent committee within that

1802
01:12:21,169 --> 01:12:18,780
Professional Organization that's made up

1803
01:12:23,030 --> 01:12:21,179
of aerospace engineers and aeronautical

1804
01:12:25,010 --> 01:12:23,040
engineers and

1805
01:12:27,709 --> 01:12:25,020
um physicists and everything across the

1806
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:27,719
spectrum that essentially creates and

1807
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:29,520
builds objects in the air and space

1808
01:12:34,189 --> 01:12:31,440
which includes a large portion of our

1809
01:12:35,930 --> 01:12:34,199
defense base and within that

1810
01:12:37,729 --> 01:12:35,940
organization that's one of the efforts

1811
01:12:39,649 --> 01:12:37,739
that we're undertaking is we're putting

1812
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,659
together documentation that describe

1813
01:12:44,090 --> 01:12:42,000
bribes the detection the

1814
01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:44,100
characterization the valuation of these

1815
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:45,600
objects using different sensing

1816
01:12:49,070 --> 01:12:47,520
phenomenologies and frequencies and

1817
01:12:51,470 --> 01:12:49,080
methodologies and that different

1818
01:12:52,850 --> 01:12:51,480
locations and things of that nature and

1819
01:12:54,790 --> 01:12:52,860
that'll be a document that we'll be

1820
01:12:57,410 --> 01:12:54,800
putting out to the entire Aerospace

1821
01:13:00,050 --> 01:12:57,420
industry that will be reviewed and

1822
01:13:02,090 --> 01:13:00,060
updated yearly so that we can then build

1823
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:02,100
technology and expand our data sets

1824
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:03,840
right we can do the science and we can

1825
01:13:08,570 --> 01:13:06,480
gather more data and Advance the topic

1826
01:13:12,590 --> 01:13:08,580
would it surprise you or the other

1827
01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:12,600
members of the aiaa AI double A

1828
01:13:16,910 --> 01:13:15,600
that some of these conclusions will come

1829
01:13:19,070 --> 01:13:16,920
to

1830
01:13:21,830 --> 01:13:19,080
it it's coming from out there it's not

1831
01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:21,840
from Earth this is extraterrestrial we

1832
01:13:28,729 --> 01:13:26,400
are being visited would you be surprised

1833
01:13:31,189 --> 01:13:28,739
I think it's it's almost hard not to be

1834
01:13:32,810 --> 01:13:31,199
surprised even if you were 100 expecting

1835
01:13:34,790 --> 01:13:32,820
it in some sense but yeah I mean I I

1836
01:13:36,350 --> 01:13:34,800
would say I'm not surprised we were very

1837
01:13:37,850 --> 01:13:36,360
open to that possibility but we're

1838
01:13:39,649 --> 01:13:37,860
approaching it very neutrally and

1839
01:13:43,250 --> 01:13:39,659
scientifically focused and so we're not

1840
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:43,260
you know we're not the necessarily you

1841
01:13:46,370 --> 01:13:44,880
know driving towards any one conclusion

1842
01:13:47,810 --> 01:13:46,380
in any sense we're just trying to follow

1843
01:13:50,990 --> 01:13:47,820
the data

1844
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,000
and uh

1845
01:13:56,510 --> 01:13:53,760
I'm so with you on that

1846
01:14:00,050 --> 01:13:56,520
um I had uh the the show wasn't about me

1847
01:14:02,330 --> 01:14:00,060
it's about you but um I was sitting

1848
01:14:04,370 --> 01:14:02,340
with uh Steve Murillo the pilot that I

1849
01:14:07,130 --> 01:14:04,380
was uh telling you about earlier but

1850
01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:07,140
sitting next to each other and we see I

1851
01:14:12,290 --> 01:14:09,840
see 14 miles away behind this mountain

1852
01:14:14,270 --> 01:14:12,300
this object comes out and it's ginormous

1853
01:14:16,729 --> 01:14:14,280
I've got binoculars and I'm looking at

1854
01:14:20,030 --> 01:14:16,739
Birds I didn't you know when you least

1855
01:14:23,689 --> 01:14:20,040
expect it right okay and uh this thing

1856
01:14:26,209 --> 01:14:23,699
uh was was uh spinning it was like a

1857
01:14:28,370 --> 01:14:26,219
beer can it's probably 400 feet tall

1858
01:14:30,350 --> 01:14:28,380
it's 14 miles away it comes out behind

1859
01:14:32,930 --> 01:14:30,360
this mountain it's like this spinning

1860
01:14:35,810 --> 01:14:32,940
across the sky we all see it

1861
01:14:38,450 --> 01:14:35,820
and uh lasted for about 10 seconds

1862
01:14:42,290 --> 01:14:38,460
middle of the day right this wasn't

1863
01:14:44,570 --> 01:14:42,300
sensor data it's my eyeballs right and I

1864
01:14:47,570 --> 01:14:44,580
see I'm just completely confused and the

1865
01:14:50,630 --> 01:14:47,580
excitement and everybody's screaming and

1866
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:50,640
uh trying to get video and and Camp the

1867
01:14:54,410 --> 01:14:51,600
point is

1868
01:14:56,689 --> 01:14:54,420
10 seconds later as I you know and I go

1869
01:14:59,689 --> 01:14:56,699
back to the Steve sitting next to me

1870
01:15:01,390 --> 01:14:59,699
says and it's on video it phased out

1871
01:15:03,470 --> 01:15:01,400
it's gone

1872
01:15:06,169 --> 01:15:03,480
and I'm thinking about wait wait wait

1873
01:15:08,030 --> 01:15:06,179
wait it was here right in the middle of

1874
01:15:11,810 --> 01:15:08,040
the blue sky right

1875
01:15:13,430 --> 01:15:11,820
gone I didn't see it disappear I almost

1876
01:15:15,470 --> 01:15:13,440
wish I would have seen it disappear

1877
01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:15,480
instead of appear that would have been

1878
01:15:20,810 --> 01:15:18,239
more fascinating to me but I haven't

1879
01:15:23,510 --> 01:15:20,820
come to any conclusions on that you know

1880
01:15:25,850 --> 01:15:23,520
what what do I draw from that what do I

1881
01:15:27,470 --> 01:15:25,860
draw us or them well

1882
01:15:29,450 --> 01:15:27,480
doesn't look like anything I've ever

1883
01:15:31,310 --> 01:15:29,460
seen before but I can't come to a

1884
01:15:32,870 --> 01:15:31,320
conclusion and I saw this in the middle

1885
01:15:35,149 --> 01:15:32,880
of the day it was like the Holy Grail

1886
01:15:38,090 --> 01:15:35,159
sighting but I still don't know what I

1887
01:15:41,270 --> 01:15:38,100
saw yeah yeah it's that's what makes it

1888
01:15:43,669 --> 01:15:41,280
so difficult I mean it just this weird

1889
01:15:45,950 --> 01:15:43,679
black hole of context in a sense you

1890
01:15:47,870 --> 01:15:45,960
know that makes it so difficult your

1891
01:15:49,729 --> 01:15:47,880
brain almost you know I imagine searches

1892
01:15:51,590 --> 01:15:49,739
to try to recognize something that

1893
01:15:53,570 --> 01:15:51,600
you're familiar with and and to

1894
01:15:55,790 --> 01:15:53,580
contextualize it in your environment and

1895
01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:55,800
when you can't find that

1896
01:16:03,169 --> 01:15:58,640
um there would be be very unsettling

1897
01:16:07,430 --> 01:16:03,179
the uh uh the odni report combined with

1898
01:16:11,870 --> 01:16:07,440
the ndaa uh has a lot of very specific

1899
01:16:14,810 --> 01:16:11,880
language in there and uh we have uh

1900
01:16:17,810 --> 01:16:14,820
trans medium very crazy word to suddenly

1901
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:17,820
be thrown out there UAP in general is is

1902
01:16:24,890 --> 01:16:21,120
is just an unusual thing to be

1903
01:16:28,370 --> 01:16:24,900
um in placed into budgets right yeah

1904
01:16:30,410 --> 01:16:28,380
um uh but but the other part is uh the

1905
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:30,420
the protection the so-called

1906
01:16:34,689 --> 01:16:32,880
whistleblower protection but also the

1907
01:16:38,450 --> 01:16:34,699
mention of health effects

1908
01:16:41,630 --> 01:16:38,460
and when we have that in the ndaa it

1909
01:16:45,830 --> 01:16:41,640
seems to me and this is the question do

1910
01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:45,840
they have evidence of of of service men

1911
01:16:52,070 --> 01:16:49,440
and women being affected health-wise by

1912
01:16:54,770 --> 01:16:52,080
uaps therefore the language needs to be

1913
01:16:57,410 --> 01:16:54,780
in there because of what has been going

1914
01:17:01,430 --> 01:16:57,420
on in the past why do you think that was

1915
01:17:03,410 --> 01:17:01,440
so specific in the ndaa I think that's a

1916
01:17:05,870 --> 01:17:03,420
I think that's a very reasonable uh

1917
01:17:07,610 --> 01:17:05,880
conclusion that you're drawing Jimmy

1918
01:17:09,649 --> 01:17:07,620
um you know I would I would I would

1919
01:17:11,450 --> 01:17:09,659
encourage people to you know listen to

1920
01:17:13,550 --> 01:17:11,460
Gary Nolan's statements on that I

1921
01:17:15,890 --> 01:17:13,560
imagine that um the work that he was

1922
01:17:18,530 --> 01:17:15,900
involved in that area

1923
01:17:21,470 --> 01:17:18,540
um probably uh had a hand in in that

1924
01:17:24,290 --> 01:17:21,480
legislation yeah yeah he was on the show

1925
01:17:27,290 --> 01:17:24,300
a couple of weeks ago

1926
01:17:29,689 --> 01:17:27,300
um very fascinating uh Insight on all of

1927
01:17:32,030 --> 01:17:29,699
this and the other part is the

1928
01:17:35,270 --> 01:17:32,040
transmedium aspect

1929
01:17:38,270 --> 01:17:35,280
um which would again suggest to me

1930
01:17:40,910 --> 01:17:38,280
that they have seen when I say they

1931
01:17:44,270 --> 01:17:40,920
right they have the data collection

1932
01:17:48,290 --> 01:17:44,280
there of of stuff coming in and out of

1933
01:17:51,050 --> 01:17:48,300
the water and uh that I I know that you

1934
01:17:53,390 --> 01:17:51,060
didn't necessarily see this but it's

1935
01:17:56,570 --> 01:17:53,400
written into the legislation which says

1936
01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:56,580
that this has been going on uh with

1937
01:18:02,030 --> 01:17:59,520
military reporting in the past

1938
01:18:04,370 --> 01:18:02,040
yeah you know from the F-18 we're not

1939
01:18:06,850 --> 01:18:04,380
well equipped to make that assessment if

1940
01:18:10,490 --> 01:18:06,860
something is traversing into the water

1941
01:18:12,770 --> 01:18:10,500
as an object on our radar gets close to

1942
01:18:15,890 --> 01:18:12,780
the surface of the water that becomes

1943
01:18:18,410 --> 01:18:15,900
more difficult for a radar to maintain

1944
01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:18,420
um and so you could see it just fall out

1945
01:18:22,669 --> 01:18:20,159
you know just disappear you know does

1946
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:22,679
that mean it went into the water

1947
01:18:25,250 --> 01:18:23,520
um you know

1948
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:25,260
we just don't have the systems to really

1949
01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:27,360
provide that that layer of context

1950
01:18:31,310 --> 01:18:29,760
around around that now the only way we'd

1951
01:18:33,050 --> 01:18:31,320
really be able to tell is if we were in

1952
01:18:35,090 --> 01:18:33,060
like a Dave fraver situation where he

1953
01:18:38,090 --> 01:18:35,100
was so close he could visually see it

1954
01:18:40,850 --> 01:18:38,100
and it was maneuvering real time and you

1955
01:18:43,490 --> 01:18:40,860
saw that happen but again we operate

1956
01:18:47,930 --> 01:18:43,500
under such vast air spaces and distances

1957
01:18:48,590 --> 01:18:47,940
from you know 30 000 feet down that it's

1958
01:18:50,630 --> 01:18:48,600
um

1959
01:18:51,830 --> 01:18:50,640
it would be a pretty rare scenario to

1960
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:51,840
see something like that but then again

1961
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:53,280
then you have the you know the video

1962
01:18:56,930 --> 01:18:55,199
like the Gimbal and the go fast and you

1963
01:18:58,729 --> 01:18:56,940
know you could you could imagine a

1964
01:19:00,910 --> 01:18:58,739
scenario where you could might catch

1965
01:19:03,709 --> 01:19:00,920
something if the conditions are right

1966
01:19:05,570 --> 01:19:03,719
uh but they have like ships right and

1967
01:19:07,130 --> 01:19:05,580
then right but here's where okay so

1968
01:19:10,370 --> 01:19:07,140
here's where probably the real answer

1969
01:19:12,649 --> 01:19:10,380
lies which is okay there's other and I

1970
01:19:15,530 --> 01:19:12,659
can't get down this too much but a lot

1971
01:19:17,209 --> 01:19:15,540
of a lot of in the in the air uh our

1972
01:19:19,550 --> 01:19:17,219
sensors get linked through a data link

1973
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:19,560
right and so what you'd want to do is

1974
01:19:23,209 --> 01:19:21,420
have sensors that you know look below

1975
01:19:24,830 --> 01:19:23,219
the water and elsewhere and if all that

1976
01:19:26,689 --> 01:19:24,840
information is in the same data link

1977
01:19:29,630 --> 01:19:26,699
then you'd have one combined picture of

1978
01:19:31,610 --> 01:19:29,640
where those things were a submarine

1979
01:19:33,530 --> 01:19:31,620
would would help well you'd need you

1980
01:19:35,750 --> 01:19:33,540
need sensors uh complete sensor grid

1981
01:19:38,209 --> 01:19:35,760
essentially right right right yeah right

1982
01:19:39,830 --> 01:19:38,219
right right right which I'm not saying

1983
01:19:41,930 --> 01:19:39,840
we don't have I'm just saying I don't we

1984
01:19:43,630 --> 01:19:41,940
can you know it's not detailed initially

1985
01:19:49,010 --> 01:19:43,640
go into

1986
01:19:53,950 --> 01:19:49,020
the uh the comments from the New York

1987
01:19:58,490 --> 01:19:53,960
Times uh going back to 2017 2018 2019

1988
01:20:01,490 --> 01:19:58,500
2020 uh there was uh another excellent

1989
01:20:03,709 --> 01:20:01,500
report from uh uh article from Ralph uh

1990
01:20:06,110 --> 01:20:03,719
Blumenthal and Leslie Kane who's going

1991
01:20:10,130 --> 01:20:06,120
to be joining us next week

1992
01:20:11,810 --> 01:20:10,140
um and in that article buried down at

1993
01:20:13,010 --> 01:20:11,820
the bottom and I know that you've seen

1994
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:13,020
it and you probably know where I'm going

1995
01:20:18,350 --> 01:20:15,120
but down at the bottom there's a comment

1996
01:20:22,669 --> 01:20:18,360
there a quote attributed uh to uh Dr

1997
01:20:26,750 --> 01:20:22,679
Eric Davis where he says uh he briefed

1998
01:20:30,110 --> 01:20:26,760
uh the Senate uh in a classified setting

1999
01:20:33,770 --> 01:20:30,120
that we are in possession of a craft

2000
01:20:37,070 --> 01:20:33,780
right and not made of this Earth full

2001
01:20:40,130 --> 01:20:37,080
stop right that's the quote and what

2002
01:20:42,410 --> 01:20:40,140
what do we what do we do with that the

2003
01:20:44,090 --> 01:20:42,420
New York Times is vetting their sources

2004
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:44,100
right they're not going to put something

2005
01:20:49,130 --> 01:20:46,080
like that in print unless they're pretty

2006
01:20:50,510 --> 01:20:49,140
confident that this was real and was

2007
01:20:52,850 --> 01:20:50,520
actually said

2008
01:20:55,250 --> 01:20:52,860
do you think that we are actually in

2009
01:20:58,010 --> 01:20:55,260
possession of of a craft not of this

2010
01:21:00,410 --> 01:20:58,020
Earth and and we're backwards

2011
01:21:03,890 --> 01:21:00,420
engineering it if we take Eric Davis at

2012
01:21:05,390 --> 01:21:03,900
his word if we take Eric Davis has word

2013
01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:05,400
um then we would have to make that

2014
01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:08,400
assumption uh I think you know even

2015
01:21:11,990 --> 01:21:10,140
outside of that if we look where we are

2016
01:21:14,270 --> 01:21:12,000
with the amount of effort and

2017
01:21:16,610 --> 01:21:14,280
legislation that's been put into in the

2018
01:21:18,470 --> 01:21:16,620
specific language in that legislation I

2019
01:21:20,630 --> 01:21:18,480
think it becomes clear that you know

2020
01:21:22,130 --> 01:21:20,640
that type of briefing seems like it

2021
01:21:24,470 --> 01:21:22,140
could be the impetus for something like

2022
01:21:26,570 --> 01:21:24,480
this like this type of legislation so

2023
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,580
yeah that seems like a very logical

2024
01:21:30,110 --> 01:21:28,800
clean conclusion about what happened and

2025
01:21:33,410 --> 01:21:30,120
where we are today

2026
01:21:35,570 --> 01:21:33,420
the um uh and and staying on this for a

2027
01:21:37,910 --> 01:21:35,580
second and I know that you have looked

2028
01:21:40,669 --> 01:21:37,920
into all of this I just want uh your

2029
01:21:43,669 --> 01:21:40,679
your input when we look at stuff like

2030
01:21:46,070 --> 01:21:43,679
that where Eric is referring to a

2031
01:21:49,250 --> 01:21:46,080
special assets Access program that is

2032
01:21:50,750 --> 01:21:49,260
outside of you know once it's gone that

2033
01:21:54,229 --> 01:21:50,760
money and everything else that's it

2034
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:54,239
that's private uh corporation uh no foia

2035
01:21:59,689 --> 01:21:56,880
right no Freedom of Information Act no

2036
01:22:02,209 --> 01:21:59,699
document numbers nothing like that and

2037
01:22:05,090 --> 01:22:02,219
this is also out of sight of of Congress

2038
01:22:08,450 --> 01:22:05,100
and and those that are uh writing the

2039
01:22:11,290 --> 01:22:08,460
checks is is that if that is indeed

2040
01:22:14,030 --> 01:22:11,300
going on taking Eric Davis at his word

2041
01:22:15,770 --> 01:22:14,040
then those on Capitol Hill are asking

2042
01:22:18,890 --> 01:22:15,780
questions about things that they have

2043
01:22:20,810 --> 01:22:18,900
absolutely no idea about programs that

2044
01:22:22,669 --> 01:22:20,820
are going on it does that seem to be the

2045
01:22:24,890 --> 01:22:22,679
case well that would be that would be

2046
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:24,900
the error that uh the whistleblowers

2047
01:22:27,530 --> 01:22:26,400
that would be the law that the

2048
01:22:30,050 --> 01:22:27,540
whistleblowers be blowing against

2049
01:22:32,030 --> 01:22:30,060
essentially is that these these uh

2050
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,040
programs that are will be held under

2051
01:22:36,530 --> 01:22:34,800
defense contractors are not legal

2052
01:22:38,030 --> 01:22:36,540
because they are not adhering to the

2053
01:22:40,970 --> 01:22:38,040
proper reporting channels through

2054
01:22:42,830 --> 01:22:40,980
Congress and Senate and so that is the

2055
01:22:47,450 --> 01:22:42,840
whistle that is being blown essentially

2056
01:22:49,910 --> 01:22:47,460
uh and so one one potential uh thought

2057
01:22:51,410 --> 01:22:49,920
is that uh well you enter these programs

2058
01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:51,420
and even though yes they are illegal

2059
01:22:55,130 --> 01:22:53,520
these people are signing ndas and things

2060
01:22:56,990 --> 01:22:55,140
of that nature and so they don't feel

2061
01:22:58,669 --> 01:22:57,000
that they can speak about it still

2062
01:23:00,590 --> 01:22:58,679
there's still fear for their career and

2063
01:23:02,209 --> 01:23:00,600
things of that nature or losing you know

2064
01:23:04,490 --> 01:23:02,219
whatever clearance they have or their

2065
01:23:05,770 --> 01:23:04,500
profession and so these type of

2066
01:23:09,110 --> 01:23:05,780
whistleblower

2067
01:23:11,390 --> 01:23:09,120
laws enable people not only in the

2068
01:23:13,669 --> 01:23:11,400
military DOD but specifically within the

2069
01:23:15,250 --> 01:23:13,679
defense uh world the civilian World

2070
01:23:18,709 --> 01:23:15,260
commercial world

2071
01:23:20,990 --> 01:23:18,719
to break those ndas it specifically

2072
01:23:22,910 --> 01:23:21,000
calls out the ability to to violate

2073
01:23:24,770 --> 01:23:22,920
those ndas in order to report illegal

2074
01:23:26,810 --> 01:23:24,780
programs and there's a secure process

2075
01:23:29,990 --> 01:23:26,820
that's being created that goes all the

2076
01:23:32,689 --> 01:23:30,000
way through to Congress and the Senate

2077
01:23:34,189 --> 01:23:32,699
that elucidates what uh what those

2078
01:23:35,510 --> 01:23:34,199
people are reporting there's a secure

2079
01:23:38,990 --> 01:23:35,520
Channel there to get that information

2080
01:23:40,910 --> 01:23:39,000
forward uh so the these these things are

2081
01:23:43,189 --> 01:23:40,920
still it's not a declassification

2082
01:23:44,810 --> 01:23:43,199
process here it's still it's still a

2083
01:23:47,450 --> 01:23:44,820
secure process it's still these are

2084
01:23:48,770 --> 01:23:47,460
still Secrets uh but it is a process of

2085
01:23:51,410 --> 01:23:48,780
bringing forward those potentially

2086
01:23:53,689 --> 01:23:51,420
illegal programs and if those

2087
01:23:55,850 --> 01:23:53,699
whistleblowers are uh if there's any

2088
01:23:57,770 --> 01:23:55,860
type of Retribution what those laws do

2089
01:24:01,310 --> 01:23:57,780
is they remove the

2090
01:24:03,470 --> 01:24:01,320
um the uh litigation caps for The

2091
01:24:05,090 --> 01:24:03,480
Whistleblower from 300 000 to an

2092
01:24:07,490 --> 01:24:05,100
unlimited amount of money that they

2093
01:24:10,010 --> 01:24:07,500
could sue their employer for uh if they

2094
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:10,020
were to be fired or something for for

2095
01:24:14,270 --> 01:24:12,000
whistleblowing and there's there's many

2096
01:24:17,050 --> 01:24:14,280
other little nuances in that as well

2097
01:24:21,110 --> 01:24:17,060
would it uh uh

2098
01:24:24,649 --> 01:24:21,120
some things have to be secret have to be

2099
01:24:29,450 --> 01:24:24,659
right I get that I totally understand

2100
01:24:31,729 --> 01:24:29,460
but if if there is an alien craft right

2101
01:24:33,709 --> 01:24:31,739
that is sitting in a hangar you know

2102
01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:33,719
down the street from my house is that

2103
01:24:40,250 --> 01:24:35,280
something that the public should know

2104
01:24:42,050 --> 01:24:40,260
about or should that just be kept secret

2105
01:24:43,729 --> 01:24:42,060
well I think that's too big of a

2106
01:24:46,310 --> 01:24:43,739
question for me because that that I

2107
01:24:49,729 --> 01:24:46,320
think depends on very many factors you

2108
01:24:51,770 --> 01:24:49,739
know geopolitically as well as morally

2109
01:24:53,930 --> 01:24:51,780
um I think generally I heir to the side

2110
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:53,940
of Truth and transparency on this topic

2111
01:24:58,370 --> 01:24:56,880
but at the end of the day you know we

2112
01:25:00,050 --> 01:24:58,380
have to consider the fact that there's

2113
01:25:02,030 --> 01:25:00,060
people in this world that would very

2114
01:25:04,550 --> 01:25:02,040
much use that type of stuff for for

2115
01:25:07,850 --> 01:25:04,560
negative gain or to her you know the

2116
01:25:11,270 --> 01:25:07,860
Western World and as much as I I support

2117
01:25:13,970 --> 01:25:11,280
the open truth of this topic uh only so

2118
01:25:15,410 --> 01:25:13,980
much that uh we don't uh hurt America in

2119
01:25:18,410 --> 01:25:15,420
the process

2120
01:25:21,110 --> 01:25:18,420
I see I'm I'm a bird you and I this is

2121
01:25:22,970 --> 01:25:21,120
where you and I agree right and I don't

2122
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:22,980
want to it's like I want to get to the

2123
01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:26,400
answers right I I truly do but at the

2124
01:25:29,810 --> 01:25:27,900
end of the day sometimes I need to sit

2125
01:25:32,149 --> 01:25:29,820
back and go you know maybe just maybe

2126
01:25:35,810 --> 01:25:32,159
maybe we don't need to know right maybe

2127
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:35,820
we don't need them to know that we know

2128
01:25:40,729 --> 01:25:38,880
and I'm talking about uh you know Russia

2129
01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:40,739
and China

2130
01:25:45,410 --> 01:25:41,600
um

2131
01:25:47,689 --> 01:25:45,420
it's a weird position uh to be in do we

2132
01:25:48,530 --> 01:25:47,699
want these answers yeah I think that we

2133
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:48,540
do

2134
01:25:57,110 --> 01:25:53,520
know sometimes we might want to just

2135
01:26:00,229 --> 01:25:57,120
think about this uh a little bit more

2136
01:26:03,050 --> 01:26:00,239
thoroughly before uh we we open up that

2137
01:26:04,370 --> 01:26:03,060
door the the other part that I wanted to

2138
01:26:09,550 --> 01:26:04,380
get to before

2139
01:26:13,250 --> 01:26:09,560
um I let you go is there are 171 cases

2140
01:26:17,090 --> 01:26:13,260
that have been reported in the new odni

2141
01:26:20,649 --> 01:26:17,100
uh report that was just released uh with

2142
01:26:22,270 --> 01:26:20,659
some very strange quotes from odna

2143
01:26:24,709 --> 01:26:22,280
strange

2144
01:26:28,490 --> 01:26:24,719
performance characteristics

2145
01:26:31,129 --> 01:26:28,500
and when you see that what is a pilot

2146
01:26:37,010 --> 01:26:31,139
reporting that you would get that type

2147
01:26:41,689 --> 01:26:39,229
so one example would be saying

2148
01:26:45,229 --> 01:26:41,699
stationary and high winds very precisely

2149
01:26:47,530 --> 01:26:45,239
right that could be one example another

2150
01:26:50,510 --> 01:26:47,540
example could be staying Airborne for

2151
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:50,520
very lengthy periods of time longer than

2152
01:26:53,810 --> 01:26:52,320
we would expect for something of its

2153
01:26:56,570 --> 01:26:53,820
mass or something of that nature or

2154
01:26:58,010 --> 01:26:56,580
normal energy density that could be an

2155
01:27:00,830 --> 01:26:58,020
example

2156
01:27:02,570 --> 01:27:00,840
um of course there's the Rapid or you

2157
01:27:04,430 --> 01:27:02,580
know very quick

2158
01:27:09,649 --> 01:27:04,440
um

2159
01:27:12,169 --> 01:27:09,659
ultimately High velocities as well as

2160
01:27:14,629 --> 01:27:12,179
accelerations uh I imagine that would

2161
01:27:17,209 --> 01:27:14,639
fit those characteristics as well uh you

2162
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:17,219
could perhaps think of trans medium uh

2163
01:27:22,250 --> 01:27:19,920
behaviors and flight uh characteristics

2164
01:27:24,050 --> 01:27:22,260
as you know

2165
01:27:25,129 --> 01:27:24,060
um advances that we don't necessarily

2166
01:27:26,649 --> 01:27:25,139
have

2167
01:27:29,090 --> 01:27:26,659
um could those all be tied together

2168
01:27:30,470 --> 01:27:29,100
potentially right if it's able to

2169
01:27:32,090 --> 01:27:30,480
seamlessly move things around the

2170
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:32,100
surface or the skin of the aircraft

2171
01:27:36,110 --> 01:27:34,320
going through the air without friction

2172
01:27:37,970 --> 01:27:36,120
and accelerating quickly could be

2173
01:27:40,129 --> 01:27:37,980
somewhat trivial much like moving

2174
01:27:41,930 --> 01:27:40,139
between you know more dense Water and

2175
01:27:44,149 --> 01:27:41,940
Air to be part of the same mechanism

2176
01:27:46,129 --> 01:27:44,159
perhaps but these all these all could

2177
01:27:49,550 --> 01:27:46,139
perhaps be some of those those

2178
01:27:52,370 --> 01:27:49,560
characteristics why do you think uh Ryan

2179
01:27:57,610 --> 01:27:52,380
that this conversation is is happening

2180
01:28:05,149 --> 01:28:01,910
you and I right you you are a veteran

2181
01:28:08,330 --> 01:28:05,159
Navy pilot on my show right now talking

2182
01:28:11,570 --> 01:28:08,340
about legislation and Capitol Hill right

2183
01:28:13,310 --> 01:28:11,580
about UFOs and uaps and and your

2184
01:28:14,810 --> 01:28:13,320
sightings and other you know

2185
01:28:16,430 --> 01:28:14,820
whistleblower and things coming forward

2186
01:28:19,430 --> 01:28:16,440
and what does the Department of Defense

2187
01:28:22,129 --> 01:28:19,440
know and what is going is it ET this is

2188
01:28:24,830 --> 01:28:22,139
a crazy point in history isn't it why

2189
01:28:27,169 --> 01:28:24,840
why now

2190
01:28:30,410 --> 01:28:27,179
I I think maybe it might just be the

2191
01:28:32,930 --> 01:28:30,420
fact that we can't we can't write it off

2192
01:28:35,750 --> 01:28:32,940
anymore we can't just dismiss the person

2193
01:28:38,270 --> 01:28:35,760
anymore because the tools we have are so

2194
01:28:40,129 --> 01:28:38,280
good and so powerful that we're able to

2195
01:28:42,709 --> 01:28:40,139
validate that and we just can't ignore

2196
01:28:45,370 --> 01:28:42,719
reality frankly I mean I think it might

2197
01:28:48,649 --> 01:28:45,380
just be that simple in a lot of ways

2198
01:28:50,870 --> 01:28:48,659
ignore what reality are we talking E.T

2199
01:28:53,629 --> 01:28:50,880
are we Circle are we going back to Crazy

2200
01:28:54,950 --> 01:28:53,639
conclusion here right well the reality

2201
01:28:56,390 --> 01:28:54,960
is that there are things that are

2202
01:28:58,430 --> 01:28:56,400
anomalous that we don't know what they

2203
01:29:00,590 --> 01:28:58,440
are I mean that is a fact uh and I don't

2204
01:29:02,810 --> 01:29:00,600
it's not a matter of just I think better

2205
01:29:04,790 --> 01:29:02,820
data is going to get us to see the trash

2206
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:04,800
bag more clearly that's floating in the

2207
01:29:09,709 --> 01:29:06,960
sky we are dealing with things that we

2208
01:29:11,570 --> 01:29:09,719
do have high fidelity resolution and we

2209
01:29:14,810 --> 01:29:11,580
have high uncertainty of what it is as

2210
01:29:17,209 --> 01:29:14,820
well right uh and so that's that's the

2211
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:17,219
state we're in and we need to resolve

2212
01:29:22,729 --> 01:29:18,320
that

2213
01:29:24,050 --> 01:29:22,739
the what's your definition of disclosure

2214
01:29:26,390 --> 01:29:24,060
hmm

2215
01:29:28,610 --> 01:29:26,400
I think that's probably different for

2216
01:29:31,850 --> 01:29:28,620
each person but it is it is that's why

2217
01:29:33,590 --> 01:29:31,860
I'm asking you yeah my version is is not

2218
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:33,600
Ryan Grace what's your definition of

2219
01:29:35,209 --> 01:29:34,560
this

2220
01:29:36,770 --> 01:29:35,219
um

2221
01:29:39,290 --> 01:29:36,780
I don't know if I can Define it but

2222
01:29:42,890 --> 01:29:39,300
maybe I can describe it

2223
01:29:46,430 --> 01:29:42,900
um one one perhaps like it could look

2224
01:29:47,410 --> 01:29:46,440
like is an admission of

2225
01:29:49,970 --> 01:29:47,420
um

2226
01:29:51,830 --> 01:29:49,980
uncertainty right

2227
01:29:53,990 --> 01:29:51,840
um I don't think necessarily United

2228
01:29:57,590 --> 01:29:54,000
States perhaps can be

2229
01:29:59,209 --> 01:29:57,600
the one to officially disclose in some

2230
01:30:01,669 --> 01:29:59,219
sense right because

2231
01:30:03,470 --> 01:30:01,679
will the rest of the world take that at

2232
01:30:05,450 --> 01:30:03,480
its complete face value and we'll move

2233
01:30:07,250 --> 01:30:05,460
into this miraculous age where we all

2234
01:30:09,709 --> 01:30:07,260
have the same shared understanding of

2235
01:30:11,390 --> 01:30:09,719
truth for once in humanity probably not

2236
01:30:14,330 --> 01:30:11,400
you know I'll probably put money against

2237
01:30:16,550 --> 01:30:14,340
it right so like is it is is that what

2238
01:30:18,830 --> 01:30:16,560
it looks like or is it really you know

2239
01:30:21,169 --> 01:30:18,840
someone in the International Community

2240
01:30:23,629 --> 01:30:21,179
Stepping Up on the stage and saying hey

2241
01:30:26,750 --> 01:30:23,639
we we as a world need to figure this out

2242
01:30:30,229 --> 01:30:26,760
uh I think it a disclosure looks like a

2243
01:30:31,870 --> 01:30:30,239
global movement to understand this verse

2244
01:30:36,169 --> 01:30:31,880
any one nation

2245
01:30:39,229 --> 01:30:36,179
when I I think in a general sense

2246
01:30:41,590 --> 01:30:39,239
um when we talk about disclosure in in a

2247
01:30:45,350 --> 01:30:41,600
UFO ET context right

2248
01:30:47,149 --> 01:30:45,360
for most disclosure to them is just one

2249
01:30:48,950 --> 01:30:47,159
thing and and everything else falls

2250
01:30:53,570 --> 01:30:48,960
short and that is the President coming

2251
01:30:57,530 --> 01:30:53,580
up going I got uh I gotta tell you

2252
01:31:00,590 --> 01:30:57,540
we're not alone right and uh We've made

2253
01:31:03,890 --> 01:31:00,600
contact and we've made that's disclosure

2254
01:31:05,629 --> 01:31:03,900
everything else falls short uh do you

2255
01:31:07,270 --> 01:31:05,639
think that we're on that that was the

2256
01:31:11,209 --> 01:31:07,280
exact opposite

2257
01:31:13,850 --> 01:31:11,219
it's like hey we're alone we all know no

2258
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:13,860
not quite but hey we we know there's

2259
01:31:18,590 --> 01:31:16,560
something here but we just don't have

2260
01:31:20,930 --> 01:31:18,600
the answers for you and we know that

2261
01:31:23,090 --> 01:31:20,940
sucks but that's where we're at uh you

2262
01:31:24,770 --> 01:31:23,100
mean and we know that there's something

2263
01:31:26,270 --> 01:31:24,780
coming from up there we just don't know

2264
01:31:28,010 --> 01:31:26,280
what is that what you're saying we don't

2265
01:31:30,110 --> 01:31:28,020
necessarily have the details and part

2266
01:31:31,850 --> 01:31:30,120
maybe the disclosure is less that it's

2267
01:31:33,229 --> 01:31:31,860
there and that the in the more of the

2268
01:31:35,030 --> 01:31:33,239
disclosure the government doesn't have

2269
01:31:37,370 --> 01:31:35,040
all the answers for us about it right

2270
01:31:39,709 --> 01:31:37,380
that's a that's a real possibility and

2271
01:31:42,169 --> 01:31:39,719
we could get that from the James Webb uh

2272
01:31:45,530 --> 01:31:42,179
this year right uh you know some crazy

2273
01:31:48,410 --> 01:31:45,540
confirmation of a biosphere or techno

2274
01:31:49,790 --> 01:31:48,420
signature from some actual planet

2275
01:31:52,310 --> 01:31:49,800
um but do you think that we're moving

2276
01:31:54,950 --> 01:31:52,320
towards that though is is this

2277
01:31:56,209 --> 01:31:54,960
disclosure thing the big D is this

2278
01:31:58,070 --> 01:31:56,219
something that's you know kind of

2279
01:32:00,410 --> 01:31:58,080
tangible at the moment and we're moving

2280
01:32:02,810 --> 01:32:00,420
towards that by the definition I just

2281
01:32:05,930 --> 01:32:02,820
talked about I think we are by the more

2282
01:32:09,350 --> 01:32:05,940
common definition of an event in some

2283
01:32:11,330 --> 01:32:09,360
way I I almost I almost agree trapped

2284
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:11,340
with Lou Alexander that has occurred I

2285
01:32:15,410 --> 01:32:13,199
mean we've had some of our biggest

2286
01:32:17,930 --> 01:32:15,420
leaders in government past and present

2287
01:32:20,629 --> 01:32:17,940
make very public statements about this

2288
01:32:21,770 --> 01:32:20,639
that are unequivocal that say hey we

2289
01:32:24,950 --> 01:32:21,780
don't know what this is and it's

2290
01:32:26,570 --> 01:32:24,960
happening what more do you want

2291
01:32:29,090 --> 01:32:26,580
um do do you want the president to come

2292
01:32:31,850 --> 01:32:29,100
out from the Oval Office is that is that

2293
01:32:33,709 --> 01:32:31,860
the right move I I don't know I don't

2294
01:32:35,689 --> 01:32:33,719
know if that is but we've had we've had

2295
01:32:38,570 --> 01:32:35,699
as much you know official confirmation

2296
01:32:41,090 --> 01:32:38,580
at least 99 of it as we could perhaps

2297
01:32:43,610 --> 01:32:41,100
ever ask for and in the next several

2298
01:32:46,010 --> 01:32:43,620
years perhaps we will move into you know

2299
01:32:48,189 --> 01:32:46,020
a more uh

2300
01:32:50,330 --> 01:32:48,199
uh expected

2301
01:32:51,890 --> 01:32:50,340
experience of disclosure for some people

2302
01:32:53,750 --> 01:32:51,900
and I I don't know this right I'm just

2303
01:32:55,550 --> 01:32:53,760
saying that we we do seem to be moving

2304
01:32:58,010 --> 01:32:55,560
towards a more organized communication

2305
01:32:59,689 --> 01:32:58,020
around this topic and you know I'm just

2306
01:33:01,669 --> 01:32:59,699
curious as anyone else to see exactly

2307
01:33:03,590 --> 01:33:01,679
what that's going to look like well you

2308
01:33:04,570 --> 01:33:03,600
know when 60 Minutes did their thing and

2309
01:33:11,930 --> 01:33:04,580
that was

2310
01:33:15,110 --> 01:33:11,940
viewed uh program and we know about 60

2311
01:33:17,810 --> 01:33:15,120
Minutes reputation well later on that

2312
01:33:21,050 --> 01:33:17,820
night and I was curious I just kind of

2313
01:33:24,590 --> 01:33:21,060
observed the world didn't burn down

2314
01:33:28,010 --> 01:33:24,600
right we didn't we didn't lose their

2315
01:33:30,890 --> 01:33:28,020
minds uh we didn't lose our minds and

2316
01:33:32,209 --> 01:33:30,900
and I felt I found comfort in that do

2317
01:33:33,770 --> 01:33:32,219
you think that the world could handle

2318
01:33:36,530 --> 01:33:33,780
the truth if if this is where we're

2319
01:33:39,050 --> 01:33:36,540
going I do I really do I think that

2320
01:33:42,590 --> 01:33:39,060
we're on average much more adaptable to

2321
01:33:43,250 --> 01:33:42,600
change uh we have much wider

2322
01:33:47,570 --> 01:33:43,260
um

2323
01:33:49,610 --> 01:33:47,580
now with our ability to kind of

2324
01:33:51,410 --> 01:33:49,620
interface with the wider World via the

2325
01:33:53,750 --> 01:33:51,420
Internet and digital media and things of

2326
01:33:56,870 --> 01:33:53,760
that nature right our minds are more are

2327
01:33:58,669 --> 01:33:56,880
flexible and plastic in a sense for

2328
01:34:00,770 --> 01:33:58,679
adapting a new and different ideas and

2329
01:34:03,110 --> 01:34:00,780
strange ideas and things that maybe make

2330
01:34:05,629 --> 01:34:03,120
us uncomfortable for fun and so I think

2331
01:34:08,450 --> 01:34:05,639
that in a sense we are much more

2332
01:34:10,910 --> 01:34:08,460
um open and ready to experience that

2333
01:34:13,669 --> 01:34:10,920
type of change as as a world

2334
01:34:15,649 --> 01:34:13,679
Ryan um I want to first off I want to

2335
01:34:18,649 --> 01:34:15,659
thank you on behalf of uh the community

2336
01:34:21,950 --> 01:34:18,659
our country the world uh for you coming

2337
01:34:23,750 --> 01:34:21,960
forward and and rolling the dice on this

2338
01:34:26,689 --> 01:34:23,760
I know it's been a difficult Challenge

2339
01:34:29,209 --> 01:34:26,699
and uh the world can be tough sometimes

2340
01:34:31,010 --> 01:34:29,219
especially right now and I want to thank

2341
01:34:33,830 --> 01:34:31,020
you for all of that seriously and thank

2342
01:34:37,070 --> 01:34:33,840
you for the conversation tonight

2343
01:34:40,970 --> 01:34:37,080
um the uh website uncertain Vector

2344
01:34:43,010 --> 01:34:40,980
uh.com is is on our website and

2345
01:34:45,169 --> 01:34:43,020
throughout social media somebody wants

2346
01:34:47,330 --> 01:34:45,179
to reach out contact you or help in any

2347
01:34:49,610 --> 01:34:47,340
way can they do that there

2348
01:34:51,830 --> 01:34:49,620
uh I'll actually recommend the best way

2349
01:34:55,550 --> 01:34:51,840
the best place to probably kind of take

2350
01:34:58,790 --> 01:34:55,560
a look via my new podcast merge Point uh

2351
01:35:02,090 --> 01:34:58,800
on YouTube uh you can find it uh merge

2352
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:02,100
uh mergepodcast.com you'll find all the

2353
01:35:05,629 --> 01:35:03,840
episodes on there and I'm going to be

2354
01:35:07,310 --> 01:35:05,639
really using that as a home base to have

2355
01:35:09,110 --> 01:35:07,320
this conversation going forward where

2356
01:35:12,050 --> 01:35:09,120
I'll be interviewing pilots and

2357
01:35:13,970 --> 01:35:12,060
scientists like Gary Nolan and others

2358
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:13,980
um to not necessarily bring objective

2359
01:35:17,330 --> 01:35:15,600
data into the conversation about their

2360
01:35:19,490 --> 01:35:17,340
experiences but just show people just

2361
01:35:21,709 --> 01:35:19,500
how common it is and and why this really

2362
01:35:24,729 --> 01:35:21,719
is an aviation safety threat out there

2363
01:35:27,410 --> 01:35:24,739
yeah um uh now I I I

2364
01:35:28,910 --> 01:35:27,420
okay I'm not ready to let you go one

2365
01:35:31,490 --> 01:35:28,920
last question

2366
01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:31,500
um and then and then and then we're done

2367
01:35:36,669 --> 01:35:34,320
and thank you but can we talk about Paco

2368
01:35:42,709 --> 01:35:36,679
and his website for a second

2369
01:35:45,350 --> 01:35:42,719
briefly uh Paco he his community right

2370
01:35:47,270 --> 01:35:45,360
of of Navy pilots and hanging out and

2371
01:35:50,750 --> 01:35:47,280
they've got their form and and thing

2372
01:35:51,950 --> 01:35:50,760
things that before all of this madness

2373
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:51,960
happened

2374
01:35:57,350 --> 01:35:54,719
he had Dave fraver you know on the

2375
01:36:00,350 --> 01:35:57,360
website and they were talking about uh

2376
01:36:04,010 --> 01:36:00,360
the Tic Tac uh back then did you see the

2377
01:36:05,689 --> 01:36:04,020
original Paco article from Ben that's

2378
01:36:08,930 --> 01:36:05,699
2016.

2379
01:36:11,689 --> 01:36:08,940
uh I think I I think I did a while ago I

2380
01:36:13,310 --> 01:36:11,699
I think I've we've had we've we've said

2381
01:36:16,250 --> 01:36:13,320
hello to each other just met once or

2382
01:36:17,689 --> 01:36:16,260
twice Paco and I and I think I did look

2383
01:36:19,850 --> 01:36:17,699
that up but I'll be honest I don't

2384
01:36:21,470 --> 01:36:19,860
remember the details at the moment well

2385
01:36:24,350 --> 01:36:21,480
the reason why I'm asking is because

2386
01:36:25,550 --> 01:36:24,360
that's not a website that anybody from

2387
01:36:27,950 --> 01:36:25,560
the public would know anything about

2388
01:36:30,350 --> 01:36:27,960
right that's the pilots hanging out

2389
01:36:32,629 --> 01:36:30,360
doing their Maverick and Iceman thing

2390
01:36:35,510 --> 01:36:32,639
right and and trading stories that's

2391
01:36:38,990 --> 01:36:35,520
that's it it was a great website it is a

2392
01:36:42,169 --> 01:36:39,000
great website but that was a shocker of

2393
01:36:44,090 --> 01:36:42,179
of an article and I often wonder well

2394
01:36:46,070 --> 01:36:44,100
since you didn't read it when it uh was

2395
01:36:48,530 --> 01:36:46,080
first there I did

2396
01:36:51,050 --> 01:36:48,540
um and I reached out to Paco I did man I

2397
01:36:52,430 --> 01:36:51,060
wrote them if you want to come on my

2398
01:36:55,970 --> 01:36:52,440
show

2399
01:36:58,990 --> 01:36:55,980
um but uh uh I'm I'm just wondering if

2400
01:37:03,350 --> 01:36:59,000
he had any idea and certainly with Dave

2401
01:37:06,410 --> 01:37:03,360
what was about to happen because of what

2402
01:37:07,850 --> 01:37:06,420
was revealed there I mean because the

2403
01:37:09,530 --> 01:37:07,860
world is a different place today because

2404
01:37:12,590 --> 01:37:09,540
of that one website

2405
01:37:14,990 --> 01:37:12,600
I I can't imagine they did I don't think

2406
01:37:18,129 --> 01:37:15,000
anyone anyone would have

2407
01:37:20,810 --> 01:37:18,139
uh yeah I'll just answer it that simply

2408
01:37:23,270 --> 01:37:20,820
what a crazy what a crazy world we're in

2409
01:37:25,970 --> 01:37:23,280
again Ryan thank you so much I look

2410
01:37:27,350 --> 01:37:25,980
forward to our next conversation and be

2411
01:37:29,209 --> 01:37:27,360
safe out there my friend thank you so

2412
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:29,219
much it was a pleasure you're the best

2413
01:37:35,229 --> 01:37:30,800
thank you

2414
01:37:39,709 --> 01:37:35,239
Ryan Graves and uncertain Vector

2415
01:37:42,709 --> 01:37:39,719
um.com is his website and I will get his

2416
01:37:45,490 --> 01:37:42,719
podcast uh in social media for everybody

2417
01:37:48,410 --> 01:37:45,500
to go and check out I'm Yoshimi church

2418
01:37:51,229 --> 01:37:48,420
this is Fade to Black I'm gonna get out

2419
01:37:53,030 --> 01:37:51,239
of here and tomorrow night what do we

2420
01:37:56,149 --> 01:37:53,040
have going on tomorrow night tomorrow

2421
01:37:58,790 --> 01:37:56,159
night is Wednesday oh man I've got

2422
01:38:01,250 --> 01:37:58,800
Stephen Bassett Stephen Bassett is on

2423
01:38:04,250 --> 01:38:01,260
with us tomorrow night everybody and uh

2424
01:38:06,410 --> 01:38:04,260
we've got a lot to talk about uh Stephen

2425
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:06,420
is on his game when it comes to

2426
01:38:13,610 --> 01:38:11,520
Washington DC the odni and the ndaa for

2427
01:38:15,350 --> 01:38:13,620
2023. so all of that is tomorrow night

2428
01:38:17,030 --> 01:38:15,360
right here on Fade to Black Fade to

2429
01:38:19,610 --> 01:38:17,040
Black is produced by Hilton J Palm Renee

2430
01:38:22,270 --> 01:38:19,620
Dennis and Kevin webmaster is Drew the

2431
01:38:24,830 --> 01:38:22,280
geek music Doug Aldrich intro space boys

2432
01:38:26,629 --> 01:38:24,840
spaceboymusic.com fade to black is

2433
01:38:28,430 --> 01:38:26,639
produced by kjcr for the game changer

2434
01:38:29,890 --> 01:38:28,440
Network and this broadcast is owned and

2435
01:38:32,390 --> 01:38:29,900
copyrighted

2436
01:38:34,250 --> 01:38:32,400
2023 by Fade to Black and The Game

2437
01:38:35,990 --> 01:38:34,260
Changer Network Inc it cannot be

2438
01:38:37,310 --> 01:38:36,000
rebroadcast downloaded copied or used

2439
01:38:38,990 --> 01:38:37,320
anywhere in the known universe without

2440
01:38:40,790 --> 01:38:39,000
written permission from Fade to Black in

2441
01:38:42,290 --> 01:38:40,800
the game change your network I'm Miss

2442
01:38:45,229 --> 01:38:42,300
Jimmy church tomorrow night Stephen

2443
01:38:48,530 --> 01:38:45,239
Bassett Paradigm research group until

2444
01:38:51,630 --> 01:38:48,540
then I want everybody to be safe

2445
01:39:11,280 --> 01:38:51,640
go back Lee tappy